Sometimes there is really nothing more to say:
The notion that we ought to now go to Baghdad and somehow take control of the country strikes me as an extremely serious one in terms of what we’d have to do once we got there. You’d probably have to put some new government in place. It’s not clear what kind of government that would be, how long you’d have to stay. For the U.S. to get involved militarily in determining the outcome of the struggle over who’s going to govern in Iraq strikes me as a classic definition of a quagmire.
Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney speaking on NPR in 1991
Listen to what he said in 1991 on NPR.
This needs to be said many times.
The ruling parties in the Iraqi government one of their aims in the elections was to demand the occupation troops to leave Iraq and starting with a set date. That made a lot of people vote for them.
But Jaafari et al are not fulfilling their election promise; they are doing exactly the opposite.
The future of Iraq; 18 student unions statement/petition for the occupation troops to leave Iraq was presented to the parlament which had people who fully agreed with them but the government did not listen. Amarah the town I lived in once, a month or so ago had 1 million signatures asking for the occupation troops to leave and set a date now; nobody listens.
My point being, Georgy,
That cities that resist an invader are always flattened. It has been that way since the beginning of recorded history. There is no “Kinder, Gentler War”. Fallujah was a center of anti-Coalition Resistance, so harsh measures were taken to root out the Cockroaches. Cologne was a French city, not German *since I seem to have to make these distinctions for you*, yet it was bombed nearly to non-existence.
I’ll tell you what. Check out the IP of my posts. You’ll find them to sent from Ft Huachuca, Arizona. Guess what is located there? I’ll give you a hint: Its not that poor sap you THINK I am.
Well of course my point is that both the cities in France and Iraq were destroyed by an evil fascist invader undertaking a war simply for greed.
And I’m not interested in the place you have found, no doubt after much Google searching, in AZ. I’m quite used to your silly little games.
The population of Amarah is 350,000. If you had a petition signed by “1 million” residents then I doubt anyone would take you seriously.
“The future of Iraq; 18 student unions statement/petition for the occupation troops to leave Iraq was presented to the parlament which had people who fully agreed with them but the government did not listen. Amarah the town I lived in once, a month or so ago had 1 million signatures asking for the occupation troops to leave and set a date now; nobody listens”
If the majority of Iraqs share your opinion and feel more deeply about it than other issues, then it will be reflected in elections. Good politicians are like prostitues. They do whatever the customer tells them to do as long as they get paid. In this case the costomer is Iraqi citizens and the payment is getting enough votes to be elected. A good politician would sell his own mother if the people demand it. Such is democracy. I am sorry if you picked the wrong prostitute. Better luck next time.
Ha ha ha, you are really something who do you think you are fooling, I use Amarah since that is the town I come from and that is in the Missan district. Most Iraqis just say Amarah. Fool. Dont try get smart with me.
“If the majority of Iraqs share your opinion and feel more deeply about it than other issues, then it will be reflected in elections.”
Will be?!! It was reflected in the elections. People voted for parties who said they were for occupation troops to leave and/or set a date for it. They did that and now Jaafari et al are not fulfilling their election promise; they are doing exactly the opposite. And the message was clear who was setting the rules it was BUSH, when Jaafari was visiting him live on a tv interview, Bush was not ready to withdraw troops Bush was not ready to set a date. .
No, It is a pretty good gig in many ways. For one thing there are all kinds of untaxed income: housing allowances, subsistence allowances, jump pay, sea pay, flight pay… And where else can you retire with a pension after 20 years?
I never went active duty (other than for training) because I just don’t like the lifestyle enough to do it full time. Getting up at 0500 for PT or having someone inspect your lawn to ensure you are keeping it up to standards grows tiresome pretty quickly.
Nadia, if you put forth a petition of 1 million signatures from a town with 100,000 voters no one is going to take you seriously. If the people you follow are that politically inept, then you need to find someone new to follow.
Nadia, if you put forth a petition of 1 million signatures from a town with 100,000 voters no one is going to take you seriously.
Well that kind of thing happened in the American elections, more votes than people on the register.
moron99,
You say you want freedom to Iraqis yet when faced with information what Iraqis want and that is for the occupation troops to leave and set a date of departure you are not interested in defending their rights against Bush. What a hypocritical devious liar you are.
Actually, Nadia,
Many of us felt the President made a big mistake by not signing on when Congress wanted to pass a bill to do just that. I would have been easy to tie draw-down to lessoning of violence. However, there is an arguement that any kind of agreement with the “Resistance” validates them and their existence. That one obviously won-out. Sadly.
DaKruser, so you too are defending your president for not listening to the wishes of the Iraqis. And you say you want freedom to Iraqis? You just took it away from them, what a hypocritical devious liar you are too.
No, Nadia,
I am NOT defending him. I think he made a grievous mistake, plain and simple. However, that is the danger of a Democracy, sometimes the majority vote for what we think is not good judgement.
So you mean in other words Bush is exactly as Saddam. Well said didn’t think it could come from you.
It was reflected in the elections. People voted for parties who said they were for occupation troops to leave and/or set a date for it. They did that and now Jaafari et al are not fulfilling their election promise; they are doing exactly the opposite. And the message was clear who was setting the rules it was BUSH, when Jaafari was visiting him live on a tv interview, Bush was not ready to withdraw troops Bush was not ready to set a date. What a hypocritical devious liar Bush is.
Well, Nadia,
I’m not sure I would say that my President is exactly like Saddam. He was elected by the Majority, like Saddam, but there were many more of us who voted against him than Saddam, which makes his election more legitimate. My point here, is, that when a Democratically elected leader makes a decision, and he is backed by the majority, then the rest of us must go along. Sometimes we go along quietly, and sometimes NOT so quietly. When all this was happening, I spoke out against the decision — check back on LadyBird’s site/archive to those dates.
However, I would not put Bush in the same league as Saddam. He may at itmes be misguided, but I don’t see him as maniacal or willing to kill off his opponents in the Gov’t because they don’t agree with him. Saddam was both.
Because I agree with you, ie that it was a bad decision, doesn’t mean I agree with your base premise. Some might say that makes me hypocrite, but in truth it makes me honest.
So you mean in other words Bush is exactly as Saddam. Well said didn’t think it could come from you.
David can have the occasional but rare moment of lucidity.
DaKruser wrote “My point here, is, that when a Democratically elected leader makes a decision, and he is backed by the majority, then the rest of us must go along.”
You seem to not know what you are saying. You say MAJORITY rule. Yet here you are not supporting the MAJORITY. So which way is it; are you for majority rule or Bush’s rule?
The majority voted for parties that were for occupation troops to be withdrawn now and set a date for it. The MAJORITY that you keep writing about wanted that and the current government parties were for this withdrawal. Now Jaafari and the rest are not fulfilling this promise they gave. He is doing the opposite. And it is Bush who is saying no, Bush is not withdrawing troops and Bush will not set a date for it either. So it is Bush who is opposing the wishes of the MAJORITY that voted. He is acting as a dictator.
He is taking way our rights here; Bush is taking away the majorities vote here. He is setting stop for what the Iraqi government said they would do to the Iraqi people in the elections.
So yes Bush is exactly as Saddam here. He is acting as a dictator. He does as he wishes with the Iraqi society and Iraqis.
This is Bush caught in his full hypocritical deviously ling act against the Iraqi government and the majority that voted for them.
We have a mis-communication here, Nadia.
When I stated that I should follow the majority, I was speaking of the American people. We (that meaning many of us who spoke out for his signing of the bill for dated withdrawl) did our best to convince him. We sent letters, made phone calls, contacted our Representatives and Senators, etc. However, when the decision was made there were more who agreed with the President’s policy than disagreed, so we follow this path, hoping for the next chance to make Iraq a better place.
As far as Bush pulling the strings in the Iraqi Legislature, I don’t agree that that is what is happening since we in the US CERTAINLY don’t want another Iran on our hands and that is LadyBird’s biggest fear right now. Mine as well.
It is not for Bush to follow the votes of the Iraqi people. It is for Bush to follow the dictates of the Iraqi Peoples’ representatives, so.…
If they are not doing what they promised, vote them out. That is Democracy in action. I certainly does not make him another Saddam.
DaKruser, the interview/press interview between Bush and Jaafari said it all. That is NOT Jaafari and the Iraqi government that are ruling Iraq it IS Bush. We are under full occupation of the U.S.
By the way the U.S is perfectly happy and supportive to the religious dictatorship in Saudi Arabia. This is the double moral and hypocrisy of the U.S foreign policy and those who support it.
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