————Update————
Rumsfeld said in his comment over the looting in Iraq at that time.
It’s untidy, and freedom’s untidy, free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things. They’re also free to live their lives and do wonderful things.
Guardian April 12, 2003 Free to do bad things.
Today on the Washingtonpost, there is an article called Iraqi Envoy “Sees Parallel in New Orleans Looting”, Barbara Bodine, a former U.S. ambassador to Yemen who served in Baghdad in 2003 said:
“I would like to see Mr. Rumsfeld stand up and say that to the people in New Orleans,”.
———-End update———-
I told this story before and I will tell it once again now.
At the first days of the American attack on Iraq employees from the ministry of industry managed to save important documents, computer disks and data’s of the ministry from looting and burning by taking them to their houses.
After few weeks and when the situation getting calm they organized a parade inside the ministry to deliver what they took with back to the ministry, so they contacted my sister who works as journalist for Iraq’s TV at that time asking for media coverage of the parade because it shows the world that not all Iraqis are looters and this parade can set a very good example for the other Iraqis.
My sister took a cameraman with her and filmed the parade, interviewed the employees their.
My sister went back crying after she gave her resignation.
Yesterday sister send me an email with this text:
Did you saw Katrina?
[Thanks to Nadia for this link. Via making light]
White people find thingsmessage board of Yahoo, there are many comments on the subject].
Dont’s miss Michael Moore’s letter to G. Bush:
Dear Mr. Bush:
Any idea where all our helicopters are? It’s Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.
Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren’t there to begin with?
Oh and Nadia, At my imcome level…I’m considered poor as well. So I’m in the 37 million bracket.
“income”
I’m getting sleepy…
Jeff,
I see, this is the problem with statistics when just reported by media without deeper facts. But I remember when I lived in the U.S I met people who had 2 jobs and still could not have a decent life infact they had it very difficult.
I don’t know, But I do know this. This what the American people do.
I give over a thousand dollars a year to different charities. Home and international. Mostly to the redcross and to different cancer foundations. And that’s just me…and I’m poor! I also do a ton of volunteer work as well.
did you live in a big city…?
It’s more expensive to live in the bigger cities.
Jeff(rey) I’m a libertarian.
Seems to me the USA already has a Libertarian Government.
No effective centralised Government, just a few rich people helping out some other rich people. What we see in the USA today is Libertarian anarchy.
American Aid both Government and private can best be described as pathetic. Take the UK for example, provided about half the amount with one fifth of the population. Of course much of the aid required overseas is to combat the death and destruction actually caused by the USA.
I have given to local and international charities for many years too and do not know anyone who hasn’t from the people I meet everyday in my life.
However lately I have come to the conclusion that I can help more in other ways. That is why I within our family companty now want to focus on Fair Trade.
Michael, did you have a chance to check out this great movie clip yet…?
Click Here
You mean like the Queen and her inbred family?
You mean like the Queen and her inbred family?
You slag the royal family off as much as you like, I would simply agree with you. The reality is though they have no power whatsoever, they are simply a marketing ploy to get in more American tourists.
Watch out twinkle toes, your fudge packing butt buddy Jon may turn against you and decide to take you out.
I don’t have time to look at silly childish cartoons Jef(rey)
Well they sure had aot of power for thousands of years while colonizing the planet.
and when will the brits be leaving Belfast?
and who was that started the original crusades…?
“and who was that who started”
I’ve had it, I’ve got to get some sleep!
Well they sure had aot of power for thousands of years while colonizing the planet.
Sure along with the Portuguese, Spanish, French, Danish, Swedish, Germans, Russians etc etc.
and who was that started the original crusades…?
Well it certainly wasn’t the current Royal Family, they didn’t even exist then.
and when will the brits be leaving Belfast?
Who cares.
jon,
This is what bothers me about radical conservatives. They are willing to trash the Bill of Rights if the end justifies their means. Dude… innocent until proven guilty IS the American way. Or at least it was supposed to be until this administration began denying people their Constitutional right of due process. Read the Constitution once before you start speaking again.
Oh, well then you must be seriously disappointed in Michael Moores since now says we aren’t spending nearly enough resources now to hunt down the the evil Osama.
I’m not sure what new evidence he is relying on to decide Osama is now guilty as hell.
Nadia– “are you from the U.S?”
Born and raised.
Jeff– “here’s what will be waiting for your kind…”
And here’s what will be waiting for yours. ;-)
“Ask and thou shall receive:”
Sadly, all that giving is fairly well offset by the US’ brutal foreign policy.
“lick my balls…”
Save your trolling for the gay bars, boy. I’m not interested.
Michael– “It’s possible, there are some sensible ones.”
Actually, far fewer than you’d think.
Jeff– “I’m a libertarian.”
Blasphemy. But, thanks for the votes. I’ll ignore the rest of the trash talk and put it down as a product of a juvenile intellect.
“I carry a gun because of people and comments like this…”
Bull. You carry a gun because your mouth writes checks your butt can’t cash.
“What you use to rid the world of people like me?”
Education.
Nadia– “How come 12% of your own population is classified poor?”
Just so you know, being poor in the US isn’t like being poor almost anywhere else. We have things like welfare, Medicaid, the Salvation Army, local food banks, etc., so it’s not like the poor of Africa. The poor don’t have to starve here.
Jeff– “I’ll pull a Michael on you…”
Nice figures. Thanks. Now adjust that for per capita income and tell me if that’s still “10 fold”.
Hey Michael! You’ve had an idiom named after you! A true honor!
“We didn’t go out to eat, no movies, etc.”
Like I said, it’s not like being poor in other countries.
“half of that 12% milk it everyday”
True dat.
“there are over a million illegal mexicans here”
I might be mistaken, but I think the figure is closer to eleven million. No, I’m not gonna look it up. ;-)
Nadia– “I met people who had 2 jobs and still could not have a decent life”
Don’t forget to account for those who squander their public education and fail to pursue any further education… or majored in a field with no real world value.
Michael– “Seems to me the USA already has a Libertarian Government.”
There’s not much Libertarian about it.
“What we see in the USA today is Libertarian anarchy.”
No, you don’t. It’s just that you see things from the far left, so your perception is skewed.
“No effective centralised Government, just a few rich people helping out some other rich people.”
Repeat after me… plutocratic oligarchy.
“American Aid both Government and private can best be described as pathetic.”
And if I were the president, it would be zero. If people wanted to donate privately, that would be one thing. But I’d be damned if I’d ever force people to give to charity.
“much of the aid required overseas is to combat the death and destruction actually caused by the USA”
Now THAT’S taking it a little too far don’t you think? Unless you think the US has a super top-secret G14 classified tsunami making machine.
Jeff– “You mean like the Queen and her inbred family?”
Trading pot-shots is a waste of time. Everyone knows the Royals are only figureheads and have no role in governing.
Michael– “they are simply a marketing ploy to get in more American tourists”
LOL… how are you guys liking that EuroDisney?
Jeff– “Jon may turn against you and decide to take you out.”
I’m not here to take anyone out. This is just a friendly discussion. And on that note, please try to act your age and curtail the vulgar comments. Unless you actually ARE 12, and then please try to act more like an adult.
CMAR– “you must be seriously disappointed in Michael Moores”
I have no real interest in Michael Moore regardless of what he says. He in no way affects me or my life. He holds no power in the current US regime. He’s a citizen and he has a right to speak his mind and you are a citizen and you have the right to ignore him. Why do you care what he says? I was simply calling to your attention your apparent lack of respect for the US Constitution.
“says we aren’t spending nearly enough resources now to hunt down the the evil Osama”
I personally believe that bin Laden is long since dead and feel that we don’t need to waste any resources looking for him beyond the current intensive intelligence-gathering campaign already in progress in that region.
“I’m not sure what new evidence he is relying on to decide Osama is now guilty as hell.”
Maybe bin Laden’s admission of guilt on one of his videotapes? Just guessing.
ah, nice pic…
Only difference is, my picture is my personal item…You grabbed yours from a detroit news site. You making the news these days…?
would you say that those 11 million are poor and count for half of the 37 million in proverty?
according to this site…it’s around 7 to 20 million. I looked it up :-)
Do you believe the US should round them up and deport them ASAP?
True, but they are some the richest inbred figureheads. Of course at the expense of the british people. It nice to see their tax money going to prince charles new car or vacation.…or wedding!
why thank you twinkle toes…I’ll do the same for you.
I agree. But I will go one step further in saying that we should keep gathering intel and kill terrorist where they stand, no matter what country. No more playing patty cake, kill them where they stand.
Jon –There’s not much Libertarian about it.
Well I see your point, but what’s being done to ensure that in 2006/8 you don’t finish up with another government from the Republican/democrat cartel?
Jeff– “Only difference is, my picture is my personal item…You grabbed yours from a detroit news site. You making the news these days…?”
You have any idea how tough it is to snap a picture and avoid pressing the detonator at the same time? Trust me, I do have the training. I make a nice field-expedient claymore AP mine too. ;-)
“would you say that those 11 million are poor and count for half of the 37 million in proverty?”
Honestly, I haven’t investigated them much other than a clip I saw on CurrenTV. I know many of them have false identifications and do work, but none of them would be allowed to accumulate any real wealth here.
“Do you believe the US should round them up and deport them ASAP?”
Absolutely not. Too expensive. It’s an invasion of US soil and we have the legal right to use lethal force. Much cheaper. Besides, after news of the first 20 or 30 kills spreads around, they’ll swarm back over the border of their own free will at no expense to the taxpayer. How’s that for efficiency? ;-)
“we should keep gathering intel and kill terrorist where they stand, no matter what country”
We will continue doing both no doubt, but an occupation is overkill. We should be letting things return to business as usual, use the intelligence community to infiltrate and then the spooks can serve a dual purpose of tracking activity and calling in TLAM strikes. It’s much cheaper. ;-)
Michael– “but what’s being done to ensure that in 2006/8 you don’t finish up with another government from the Republican/democrat cartel?”
What am I doing personally? I am posting on blogs to expose the right as the murderous traitors they are. But, as a Libertarian, I don’t support the Democrats either. What I dream of is the entire country suddenly gaining knowledge of US History, the Constitution, common sense, logic, human rights, civil rights, etc etc, and the Libertarian Party’s platform to restore the government to is Constitutional limits and have everyone vote Libertarian tickets down the line. But, barring a miracle, we all know that’s not going to happen.
I do believe that Bush has squandered the confidence people had in the Republican party and I don’t believe they will have such an overwhelming majority in office after the next elections. However, I’m starting to think that it will be better for the fascists to get re-elected, enslave the American public and bring about a new revolution. That way, we can overthrow the government and write a new constitution in modern english that is less ambiguous and more restrictive. Sadly, millions of people would die in the process, but it may be the only solution.
We’ll see what happens, but I will continue to do my part for what little it’s worth.
now hold on second Jon, you’re contradicting yourself. I was, for the most part, pretty there with you until that point. No re-writing…That’s where I draw the line. Follow the original, period. Oh, and don’t kill the illegals, just deport them and then shoot them if they try to enter illegally again. :-)
I wasn’t aware of “extreme” libertarians out there.
Jeff– “I was, for the most part, pretty there with you until that point.”
I wouldn’t want the content changed, just clarified. For example:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Congress will make no law with respect to any religious establishment, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, nor will any public funding be given to any religious organization for any reason; or abridging the freedom of speech or any other form of expression; or of the media; or the right of the people to peaceably assemble on public property, and to petition the Courts for a redress of grievances.
There is just too much to be exploited in it’s current form I think, as we can see from the current state of affairs. I’d want it to ensure that everyone was treated equally regardless of race, sex, religion, bank balance, etc.
I see what your saying…It’s just starts becoming pretty dangerous when words start to change. There’s a fine line.
alright, after taking the little lib quiz over at http://www.lp.org/
here is the images result…
My PERSONAL issues Score is 80%.
My ECONOMIC issues Score is 90%.
I’m curious to see where you score Jon.
Here is the direct link…
Click Here…
Jeff–
Your PERSONAL issues Score is 100%.
Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 100%.
That’s funny that you posted a test at almost the exact time I did in the other section. The world’s smalled political quiz is somewhat designed to cause people to answer as a Libertarian should. However, I do think those questions need to be asked in this type of unambiguous manner. It makes it much easier for people who are lazy, like Americans are, to come to a realization of what the issues are all about.
When I have friends take the test at politicalcompass.org, I will generally need to explain some of the questions and I do explain them as a Libertarian would, but I think the Libertarian view of the issues is simply the dispassionate, logical manner of looking at things.
The reason you should get 100% in both areas of the smallest quiz, is because, if you don’t, your views leave loopholes for the government to gain power it shouldn’t have over the citizens. Everyone should be free to pursue life, liberty and happiness… even if they end up killing themselves in the process. We are all intelligent beings, we all know the dangers of things like skydiving and drugs and we should all be free to make the responsible or irresponsible decision. As long as you are not interfering with someone elses pursuit of life, liberty and happiness, you should be able to do what you want. If you make the wrong decisions, you take a calculated risk and live with the consequences. Simple as that.
Anyway, I’m out for the night.
Peace.
This is mine.
CENTRISTS espouse a “middle ground” regarding government
control of the economy and personal behavior. Depending on
the issue, they sometimes favor government intervention
and sometimes support individual freedom of choice.
Centrists pride themselves on keeping an open mind,
tend to oppose “political extremes,” and emphasize what
they describe as “practical” solutions to problems.
The RED DOT on the Chart shows where you fit on the political map.
Your PERSONAL issues Score is 50%.
Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 40%.
(Please note: Scores falling on the Centrist border are counted
I just don’t feel that libertarianism could work in real life. If you want to get rid of the Republican/Democrat cartel you will have to come up with something else.
What amazes me about yanqui politics is the different parties don’t even bother having manifestos, so you have “no promises” and therefore “no accountability”. What the USA needs actually is a little socialism, but you can’t tell Americans that, they just think they know it all and continue with their arrogance and stupidity.
I thought it was a dumb test in which all three answers were equally valid for every question asked. The questions were not properly framed. For example, the last question says reduce tax & spending by 50%.
Okay … over what timepspan? Immediately and instantly? The shock to our system would be potentially devstating as, amoung other things, the fed had a lesser ability to control inflation and interest. Over ten or twenty years? Then the stable circulation of money and micro-economies could be maintained and governement could be reduced without subjecting the nation to an unwise amount of risk.
All the questions are like this.
Jon,
JON– “I have no real interest in Michael Moore regardless of what he says. Why do you care what he says? I was simply calling to your attention your apparent lack of respect for the US Constitution.”
You seem to have lost your way in this conversation. Ladybird made a comment about Michael Moore’s recent comments, I responded to that comment, you came to MM’s defense. Now after I’ve responded to you, you say you “have no interest in MM”. Well then, this is the wrong thread for you to get involved in. (roll eyes)
“Maybe bin Laden’s admission of guilt on one of his videotapes? Just guessing.”
He already had that info when he was saying saying he couldn’t be sure that Osama was guilty.
Your comments about Michael Moore as merely a private citizen display an appalling ignorance about American party politics. At the Democratic National Convention last August, Moore was given a seat of honor next to former President and fellow private citizen Jimmy Carter. Michael Moore is a centrally important MOUTHpiece of the highly influential radical left wing of the current American opposition party. One would have to be an idiot or duplicitous to claim someone with a paid position to “talk sh*t” for the Democrats about whatever any member of the Republican party happens to be doing at the time (like evacuating 100K people from a flooded city — under fire — in 5 days while not neglecting the people in the rest of an equally devastated 200 mile coastline) is “merely a private citizen”.
Michael– “USA needs actually is a little socialism”
The US has a little socialism. Things such as the welfare program, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. I’m not in favor of any of those things. I consider all of them to be theft from one sector of society and given to another, as is all socialism.
CMAR– “You seem to have lost your way in this conversation.”
I haven’t read the rules of the site and didn’t realize that I was compelled to stay on one topic.
“you came to MM’s defense”
I defended the statement that people are innocent until proven guilty.
““have no interest in MM””
Meaning that I don’t put much stock in anything any spinmeister says.
“this is the wrong thread for you to get involved in”
I’ll get involved where I like.
“He already had that info when he was saying saying he couldn’t be sure that Osama was guilty.”
Don’t make a statement like that as fact without backing it up. You have no idea what he did or didn’t know.
“claim someone with a paid position to “talk sh*t”… blah blah blah …is “merely a private citizen””
Yes. He is a private citizen. The DNC is not a government organization just because it is a political organization. MM is not paid with public funds. He has no governmental power. He is free to say whatever he wants, the same way you are free to spew your radical conservative drivel.
“highly influential radical left wing”
Frankly, I don’t see the Democrats as being either all that radical currently nor all that left-wing. I’d describe them more as capitulant.
The current Republican party are by far the more radical group and if you can’t see that, you must be an idiot or duplicitous.
“Capitulant” is exactly the proper term.
Good day. Nice to meet most of you.
Let’s get a few things out of the way, before poor Jeff has an infarction. By way of introdcution:
1) I am a proud American, who was glad to serve his country in the Army. I would do so again if called upon.
2) I am heterosexual, and will not look with favor on offers to lick anyone’s genitalia, Jeff. Grow up.
3) Michael Moore belongs in the same remedial civics class as Karl Rove.
Now, on to manifestation:
The Democratic Party no longer speaks for anyone but its candidates, staff, and activists. They form a noxious encrustation on the dream of Roosevelt like barnacles on the hull of a directionless ghost ship. They have long turned their faces away from any star that they could sail by. There is no Democratic dream; they are a vehicle for a certain type of politician from certain areas of the country to facilitate their ambitions. Nothing more.
By contrast, the GOP seems much livelier. There is a dream that motivates its partisans — but it is a miserific dream of cutthroat competition, ruthless repression of dissent, social control, and imperial conquest. For all its talk about “values” it is morally void, and for all its disdain for evolution, its social values are Darwinian in the extreme.
The common thread is a lack of compassionate vision and service to those we are most obliged to help. Do not bother unleashing a drivelanche of irrrelevant statistics — Jeff’s attitude toward those who have had their lives destroyed by Katrina is the true face of GOP “compassion,”
What Katrina should teach us, at an almost unfathomable cost, is that foreign interventionism and “nation building” is just what a much earlier and more principled George W(ashington) told us it is…a distraction, a waste of resources and an invitation to dangerous entanglements.
FEMA deserved more attention and funding — civil engineering deserved more attention and funding (the scandalous neglect of our infrastructure has been going on for decades — regardless of which group of self-serving Republicrats or Demicans is in power.)
People watched, helplessly trapped, as the water rose higher, first taking their homes, then their lives, while Condi shopped for shoes and W. played cowboy in Crawford. 20 years of negelect of the Levee system and the infrastructure of the American South means there’s plenty of blame to share around, but the fact is that George was at the wheel at the time, and could have brought the whole force of the Federal Government to bear when Katrina headed north. There were 48 critical hours in which thousands could have been saved. They weren’t. Thousands lacked the means to evacuate, or were too poor, sick, or old to flee quickly. We could have gotten them out. We didn’t.
In the end, responsibility for that failure goes to the man in the White House (if Harry Truman is to be believed), but on a more primary level, it goes on all of us. We haven’t demanded from our government that it perform its first, most important tasks — promoting the general welfare, and providing for the common defense, not just from overseas terrorists, but from the ravages of nature. While we quibbled about such media morsels as gay marriage and evolutionary theory in the schools, our bridges weakened, our levees cracked, and the stage was set for disaster.
We need a major, long-term committment to flood control, bridge building and repair, our highway system, and our disaster response resources. If you didn’t learn that from this, then you are beyond the hope of teaching. Spending huundreds of billions on crack-brained dreams of nation building overseas was foolish when Clinton attempted it, and its foolish now.
We swung down from the trees and formed governments for two purposes: to build things to better all of our futures, and to protect our goods and our lives from disaster — whether it comes from other groups of civil primates, or from natural causes. Not just the government has failed to act in advance of this tragedy, WE as a nation have failed.
Now, let’s learn the lesson, mourn the dead, clean up this mess, and move on.
Jon “The US has a little socialism. Things such as the welfare program, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. I’m not in favour of any of those things. I consider all of them to be theft from one sector of society and given to another, as is all socialism.”
This is why Libertarianism could never work, no organisation, everyone looking out for just number one, total anarchy. Meantime you are sleepwalking into another election with the only choices being the Republicans or Democrats, two branches of the same political party. Medicare isn’t socialism, it’s capitalism of the worst kind. Huge profits for insurance companies , hospitals and a failed service.
Killing Americans By Health Care Policy
http://magic-city-news.com/printer_4545.shtml
By Stephen Crockett
Sep 2, 2005, 22:49
Over and over, I have heard that America has the greatest health care system in the world. Politicians and pundits have repeatedly bragged about the high quality of medical care and medicine in our nation. I always believed the statements without question until recent years. Facts got in the way.
I went looking for the numbers behind the real situation. My grandfather Crockett often said, “Numbers never lie but liars use numbers.” The real story told by the numbers is very disturbing.
I was shocked during the 2000 and 2004 elections when the Democratic candidates started throwing up the numbers of uninsured Americans. Even the Bush campaign could not diminish the magnitude of the problem. Various estimates place the number of uninsured at between 43 million and 60 million Americans. These numbers do not include the millions of other Americans in inadequate health insurance programs that fail to provide sufficient coverage. Bad health insurance plans are not differentiated from good ones in the numbers.
Lack of health insurance kills Americans. More Americans die from political decisions concerning health care policy on a weekly or monthly basis than died in the 9–11 terrorist attacks. The Bush Republicans are the chief reason that only the United States and South Africa do not provide government guaranteed health care to all citizens among the 50 most economically advanced nations globally.Why do we fail to provide health care to all citizens? The answer is “private profit by a few.” The HMO’s and drug companies make obscene profits because we do not have a government guaranteed health care program. These same companies and sectors provide hundreds of millions of dollars to Republican candidates and organizations.
The degree of political influence of the HMO’s and drug companies in the Republican Party was clearly demonstrated by the selection of Senator Bill Frist to be the Republican Senate Majority Leader. The selection had the clear blessing of the Bush White House. The Frist family is extremely rich because of their control of one of the nation’s largest HMO’s. Frist has by his own efforts played the dominate role in stopping all Americans from having government guaranteed health care. Frist is so powerful in the Republican Party that he is considered a leading candidate for the Republican Presidential nomination in 2008.
Jeremy Rifkin in his excellent new book, The European Dream, provides some startling numbers regarding American health care compared to other nations. He writes, “When it comes to evaluating the fairness of countries’ health care, the US ranked 54th, or last place among the OECD nations.” The United States has only 279 physicians per 100,000 persons in our population while Europe has 322. American infant mortality rates place us at a mere 26th place among industrialized nations. Our life expectancy is significantly lower than that of the European Union.
The United States spends 10 percent of our entire Gross Domestic Product (the value of all goods and services in the US economy) on health care. It is the highest expenditure on the sector of any nation in the world. For the vast amount of money, the results are frankly terrible! Americans are paying for massive, unnecessary administrative costs and profit taking by financial middlemen in both dollars and deaths.
American companies are at a huge disadvantage with those of other nations as a result of our health care system. American companies provide health care for their workers. In other nations, government provides the health care. The added expense for American companies puts them at an extreme disadvantage.
The vast majority of Americans want universal government guaranteed health care for all Americans. The poor among us should not die because of political health care decisions or private profits. Only the private profit of a few powerful, politically connected companies (and the Republican Party they bought with campaign dollars) stand in the way. As voters, what will each of you going to do about the killing of Americans by health care policy? Are you going to condemn millions of your fellow American citizens to an early death by doing nothing during the 2006 and 2008 elections?
Kit
Welcome here, nice to meet you.
Kit,
I’ll agree with most of what you say. I will even go so far as to say that in the end, people will associate the disaster with the President. But in truth, I think it is too early to place the blame at his doorstep.
Most people, myself included, do not know enough about disaster response coordination to be able to make an informed decision on who did good/bad during this catastrophe. Most people in this blog know absolutely nothing in these matters and yet propagate rumors and smear blame around thicker than Mississippi mud.
I often wonder what people expect the President to do during a crisis. Hop in a truck full of C-Rations and drive south??? I have a feeling that the President did not refuse anything that was requested. We shall see. If it turns out that aid was requested and he responded with “F” off, then he is due for a good tar/feathering. It will probably come down to the fact that a major catastrophe laid waste to a large swath of heavily populated areas. The media was able to beam images around faster than people/machines/supplies could move. It is always going to suck for people on the wet end of a hurricane who can’t/won’t evacuate.
Did the mayor properly equip and outfit the shelters? Did he have a plan to evacuate people? Did he execute that plan? Did the governor prepare supplies and execute detailed evacuation, security, and supply plans?
The last I heard is that as late as Saturday, the LA Governor had still refused to grant federal authorities overall control of the rescue and support ops. So there were many chiefs running about blaming other chiefs for all the problems, no clear chain of command, no clear evacuation plans, etc., etc. The final score will probably be mother nature 1, banal bureaucracy and poor local leadership 0.
It’s hard to believe that there are still any Americans willing to defend Bush. He is without doubt the worst President the USA has ever had, the man is a fool, you only need to hear one of his “speeches” to understand that. and yet people still support him because they realise the alternative is admitting that they are also fools.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts120.html
***************************************************************************************************
The raison d’être of the Bush administration is war in the Middle East in order to protect America from terrorism and to insure America’s oil supply. On both counts the Bush administration has failed catastrophically.
Bush’s single-minded focus on the “war against terrorism” has compounded a natural disaster and turned it into the greatest calamity in American history. The US has lost its largest and most strategic port, thousands of lives, and 80% of one of America’s most historic cities is under water.
If terrorists had achieved this result, it would rank as the greatest terrorist success in history.
Prior to 911, the Federal Emergency Management Agency warned that New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen. Congress authorized the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project (SELA) in order to protect the strategic port, the refineries, and the large population.
However, after 2003 the flow of funds to SELA were diverted to the war in Iraq. During 2004 and 2005 the New Orleans Times-Picayune published nine articles citing New Orleans’ loss of hurricane protection to the war in Iraq.
Every expert and newspapers as distant as Texas saw the New Orleans catastrophe coming. But President Bush and his insane government preferred war in Iraq to protecting Americans at home.Bush’s war left the Corps of Engineers only 20% of the funding to protect New Orleans from flooding from Lake Pontchartrain. On June 18, 2004, the Corps’ project manager, Al Naomi, told the Times-Picayune: “the levees are sinking. If we don’t get the money to raise them, we can’t stay ahead of the settlement.”
Despite the dire warnings delivered by the 2004 hurricane season, the Bush administration made deep budget cuts for flood control and hurricane funding for New Orleans. The US Senate, alarmed at the Bush administration’s insanity, was planning to restore the funding for 2006. But now it is too late. Many multiples of the funding that would have saved the city now have to be spent to rescue it.
Not content with leaving New Orleans unprotected, it took the Bush administration five days to get the remnants of the National Guard not serving in Iraq, along with desperately needed food and water, to devastated New Orleans. This is the slowest emergency response by the US government in modern times. By the time the Bush administration could organize any resources for New Orleans, many more people had died and the city was in total chaos.
Despite the most dismal performance on record, Bush’s Homeland Security Secretary, Michael Chertoff, said on Thursday that the Bush administration has done a “magnificent job.”
The on-the-scene mayor of New Orleans sees it differently: “They’re feeding the people a line of bull, and they are spinning and people are dying.”
“They’re thinking small man, and this is a major, major deal.”
It is a major deal, one that will affect Americans far beyond New Orleans. According to reports, 25% of our oil and gasoline comes through the New Orleans port and refineries, all out of commission. Needed goods cannot be imported, and exports will plummet, worsening an already disastrous deficit in the balance of trade.
The increased cost of gasoline will soak up consumers’ disposable incomes, with dire effects on consumer spending. US economic growth will be siphoned off into higher energy costs. American lives far from New Orleans will be adversely affected.
The destruction of New Orleans is the responsibility of the most incompetent government in American history and perhaps in all history. Americans are rapidly learning that they were deceived by the superpower hubris. The powerful US military cannot successfully occupy Baghdad or control the road to the airport – and this against an insurgency based in only 20% of the Iraqi population. Bush’s pointless war has left Washington so pressed for money that the federal government abandoned New Orleans to catastrophe.
The Bush administration is damned by its gross incompetence. Bush has squandered the lives and health of thousands of people. He has run through hundreds of billions of borrowed dollars. He has lost America’s reputation and its allies. With barbaric torture and destruction of our civil liberty, he has stripped America of its inherent goodness and morality. And now Bush has lost America’s largest port and 25 percent of its oil supply. Why? Because Bush started a gratuitous war egged on by a claque of crazy neoconservatives who have sacrificed America’s interests to their insane agenda.
The neoconservatives have brought these disasters to all Americans, Democrat and Republican alike. Now they must he held accountable. Bush and his neoconservatives are guilty of criminal negligence and must be prosecuted.
What will it take for Americans to reestablish accountability in their government? Bush has got away with lies and an illegal war of aggression, with outing CIA agents, with war crimes against Iraqi civilians, with the horrors of the Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo torture centers, and now with the destruction of New Orleans.
What disaster will next spring from Bush’s incompetence?
Here’s the socialism that Michael is looking for:
It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can’t blame them, because it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there. The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are confronting a natural disaster.
If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the flooding and rebuild the city’s infrastructure. For journalists, natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.
Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists–myself included–did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.
But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.
The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has gotten the story wrong.
The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.
The man-made disaster is the welfare state.
For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave in an emergency–indeed; they were not behaving as they have behaved in other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even what we expect from a Third World country.
When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion. They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).
So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a description from a Washington Times story:
“Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.
“The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire.…
“Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill orders.
“‘These troops are…under my orders to restore order in the streets,” she said. “They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will.”
The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.
What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?
Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?
My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located in the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in America . “The projects,” as they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and irremediable squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)
What Sherri was getting from last night’s television coverage was a whiff of the sense of life of “the projects.” Then the “crawl”–the informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels–gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the city’s public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city’s jails–so they just let many of them loose. There is no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations–that is, a large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa.
There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit–but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals–and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep–on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.
All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters–not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.
No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact, some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on American “individualism.” But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism.
What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state. What we consider “normal” behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don’t sit around and complain that the government hasn’t taken care of them. They don’t use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.
But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don’t, because they don’t own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.
The welfare state–and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages–is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans And that is the story that no one is reporting.
Source: TIA Daily — September 2, 2005
The Intellectual Activist | A monthly magazine analyzing current …
http://www.intellectualactivist.com/ — 26k — Sep 4, 2005
Kit– “while Condi shopped for shoes and W. played cowboy in Crawford”
Welcome Kit!
Poor black folk, as a whole, vote Democrat. With people like Rove on the White House staff, it wouldn’t suprise me if that was the real reason help wasn’t forthcoming. I may just be a conspiracy theorist at heart, but people need to start taking a hard look at the motivations behind the actions (or lack thereof).
“This is why Libertarianism could never work”
This nation started out Libertarian and is the reason this nation is as strong as it is after only about 200 years. Sadly, these Libertarian values have been usurped over the years until this nation is no longer the republic it started out as.
“everyone looking out for just number one”
Only the evil look out just for number one. Looking out for those less fortunate is the job of charity organizations. But if you force people to donate by taxation, it ceases to be charity and becomes socialism and that is theft. Socialism is simply another way for a small group of people to exert unwarranted power over another group.
“with the only choices being the Republicans or Democrats”
Not true. It is simply that those two parties have the most money to spend on advertising and for that fact are given almost all the attention from the media. I am a registered Libertarian. One of the reasons I like the Libertarian party so much is because they do not accept corporate donations. That is a HUGE handicap that they’ve placed on themselves. But it tells me something about the character of the party. And in the instances where they do win elections, it leaves them beholden to none in the decision-making process. I personally believe that if every American were to be presented with the platforms of each party without the names of the party on them, the Libertarians would win all elections.
“Medicare isn’t socialism, it’s capitalism of the worst kind. Huge profits for insurance companies…”
Please do better investigations before you talk about these programs. No money from Medicare goes to insurance companies.
“…hospitals…”
A business like any other and those funds have allowed the US medical (and every other) industry to technologically eclipse the rest of the world.
“…failed service”
Believe what you want. The next time you have an fMRI, remember you said that.
““Numbers never lie but liars use numbers.””
The funny thing is that this statement refers to the activity that this writer is participating in. It’s funny that you didn’t cath that too. ;-)
“the number of uninsured”
Here is something your writer forgot to mention. It is illegal for healthcare providers to refuse to treat a patient who cannot pay. The cost of medical treatment of the uninsured is passed on to the insured through their insurance companies and then to the taxpayers. That’s socialism.
“Lack of health insurance… blah blah blah”
This whole paragraph is complete horseshit. I’m not going to bother to pick it apart in the same way the author didn’t bother to substantiate any of these statements of opinion.
“When it comes to evaluating the fairness”
See, this whole thing depends on what your idea of fairness is. I happen to be one of those people who don’t believe that anyone is entitled to health care simply by virtue of their existence.
“American infant mortality rates place us at a mere 26th”
Ever heard of something called a “crack baby”? It’s sad, but the world is way overpopulated, so I find myself less than sympathetic.
“Our life expectancy is significantly lower”
I would be willing to bet that this has more to do with bad diet and lack of exercise than anything else.
“unnecessary administrative costs and profit taking by financial middlemen”
This is true, but it’s up to the consumers to band together and fight it. This is the whole point of a free market society. The market pressure should force industries to do better. I don’t have an explaination why Americans don’t use market pressure to stop these aggressive business practices.
“In other nations, government provides the health care.”
I used to watch Canadian TV and hear all about the healthcare worker strikes and other issues they had too. And the government forcing them back to work like the slaves that they are.
Michael… go over to http://www.lp.org and start reading and you will hopefully figure out what I’m talking about. You have been so brainwashed by socialism that you can’t make sense of anything else. It skews your view and you are no longer able to to look at anything with any sort of logic.
Charles– “But in truth, I think it is too early to place the blame at his doorstep.”
The sign that Truman kept on his desk with the phrase “The buck stops here.” means that anything that happens under the president’s watch is the responsibility of the president. But you should notice that Kit wasn’t placing the ultimate responsibility on the president, but on the American public for allowing government to become what it now is in the US.
“I often wonder what people expect the President to do during a crisis.”
I’ll let Kit answer that again for you…
“FEMA deserved more attention and funding — civil engineering deserved more attention and funding (the scandalous neglect of our infrastructure”…“George was at the wheel at the time, and could have brought the whole force of the Federal Government to bear”
“Hop in a truck full of C-Rations and drive south??? ”
That would at least be something. But, we only have about 10–15% of the US military actually deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. There is plenty of manpower and resources to to handle this emergency without foreign assistance. And C-Rats have gone the way of the dinosaur. We have MREs now. And they’re not half bad. But that pound cake was good wasn’t it? ;-)
“then he is due for a good tar/feathering”
Bush’s response to HK is probably one of the least of the reasons he deserves that at this point.
“faster than people/machines/supplies could move”
But our advanced weather imaging capabilities should have allowed the response to start before the storm ever hit.
Michael– “blah blah blah”
Just out of curiosity… do you ever read anything other than left-wing propaganda?
“What disaster will next spring from Bush’s incompetence?”
How about a volcano? I’d love to see him produce a volcano. That’d be really neet.
Vance– “The man-made disaster is the welfare state.”
Exactly, socialism produces sort of a victim/dependant mentality. These people were raised wrong and have no idea how to react in the face of adversity. And their lack of compassion for each other compels me to feel the same lack of compassion, even for those who probably deserve some right now.
Jon did you really write this? Is this what Liberatarism is all about?
And then this “Here is something your writer forgot to mention. It is illegal for healthcare providers to refuse to treat a patient who cannot pay. The cost of medical treatment of the uninsured is passed on to the insured through their insurance companies and then to the taxpayers. That’s socialism.”
Besides being obviously rubbish, how can charges for uninsured people be passed over to insurance companies? Of course you are ignoring the fact that health services provided to non-insured are pretty basic, otherwise of course no one would buy insurance.
Then again there is also this;
http://www.mercola.com/2005/feb/16/medical_costs.htm
About half of all bankruptcies in 2001 were the result of medical problems and, surprisingly, most of those (more than three-quarters) who went bankrupt were covered by health insurance at the start of the illness.
Medically related bankruptcies involved some 700,000 U.S. households in 2001. When all of those affected were added up — some 700,000 children and 600,000 spouses, elderly parents and other dependents — the number of people reached more than 2 million annually.
Michael– “Is this what Liberatarism is all about?”
No, this is me being unsympathetic to a world where people act in a completely irresponsible manner, having babies that they have no way of supporting and providing care to. With the worlds population at about 6.4 billion and climbing, overpopulation is one largest problems facing the world today. We are poisoning off our lakes and oceans with feritilzer trying to feed these people.
“how can charges for uninsured people be passed over to insurance companies?”
Hospitals raise prices… duh!
“you are ignoring the fact that health services provided to non-insured are pretty basic”
I’ve used the service in the past. I recieved the same care I would have if I’d been in a position to pay at the time.
“otherwise of course no one would buy insurance”
Not if you want to protect your credit rating.
“About half of all bankruptcies in 2001 were the result of medical problems”
With regards to the rest, as I said before, nobody is simply entitled to healthcare by virtue of their existence. There is no reason that the government should steal money from me so that you can go to the hospital when you are sick. How about we all make everyone responsible for themselves and then maybe people won’t sit back and get lazy on welfare. Maybe they will take advantage of their education opportunities and plan to provide for themselves in case they get sick.
Why should some people work hard through school and then go fight for a good job to make enough money to provide for someone else? That weakens the whole human race and defeats the process of evolution. If people don’t go out and make for themselves, then evolution says that they are not fit to survive and should die off. It’s sad, but that’s what caused Australopithecus Afarensis to evolve into Homo Sapiens. The unfit die and those who succeed are better for it. The gene pool improves and eventually Homo Sapiens will become the next better thing. In other words, social welfare causes the species to devolve, weakens the race and will eventually cause the extinction of the human race. And yes I really believe that.
Hey, I wonder if muslim tsunami victims government’s are doing this for them.…
Click Here!
Jon, we seem to be more and more on the same level…I may have jumped the gun on you earlier with the insults…I apologize for that. I’ll save my insults for michael only… ;-)
Hate to disrupt the love fest but I think Jon takes things a bit too far. In general I would agree with the basic premise, but taking it to its extreme is just as bad as its opposite.
Civilization needs a bit of grease for its wheels. Humans have a capacity for compassion that is innate. Those without it are considered sociopaths and rightly so. So while I agree that ‘tough love’ is far more beneficial to society (and individuals) than the welfare state, I do believe that a primitive and temporary safety net should be offered. Just as with Katrina, there are ‘force majeure’ circumstances, both natural and man made, that can potentially render even the most self sufficient and productive individuals helpless.
What about children? Seriously Jon, you don’t think that kids are guilty that they have stupid lazy parents do you? Should they suffer? Its probably a hard balance to strike — Supporting the innocent and vulnerable without encouraging sloth.
Maybe our ideology and positive legal system should recognize that dependence creates not only a rhetorical loss of freedom, but also a real obligation on the part of the recipient to pay back the debt, and sacrifice certain freedoms that net producers may enjoy.
Sorry I don’t have the answer to that one. I don’t believe you do either.
Jeff– “Jon, we seem to be more and more on the same level”
When someone tells me that they are a Libertarian, that tells me that they are, at the very least, willing to listen to rational discussion on the issues. I’m glad that turns out to be true about you. :-)
“I apologize”
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to accumulate karma points by saying I forgive you. ;-)
“I’ll save my insults for michael only”
Because Libertarians are held to a higher standard than other folks, I’m going to encourage you to save the insults entirely and instead help me in politely converting the rest of these people to the logical method of thinking. ;-)
Peace.
Jeff–
Hey I like your website!
Your Logical Intelligence is Exceptional
Your Verbal Intelligence is Genius
Your Mathematical Intelligence is Exceptional
Your General Knowledge is Genius
Finally a site that recognizes my potential!
Thanks for stopping by :-) , I’m currently taking that Meyers-Briggs PTI test.
“I’m currently taking that Meyers-Briggs PTI test. ”
Cool! I’m a dyed-in-the-wool INTJ. Explains alot doesn’t it? ;-)