Try not to lie next time and they might be more willing to help.

“the UN forms up a few divisions of well equipped soldiers from member nations to come in and help establish security. The US could hand over regions one by one to the new forces. As this happens, US/coalition forces could begin to draw down.”

Why don’t you write Bush and suggest that? See how fast you get shot down.

“US wins because its goals of overthrowing Saddam and helping establish democracy have been met.”

To the victor goes the spoils, right? The US actually loses because we will be dealing with fallout from this for generations to come.

“The UN would win because they will at last be perceived as an organization interested in and capable of supporting democracy.”

And one completely impotent in stopping US fascism. I guess they might as well capitulate then, huh?

“Mikey would win because he could claim that the US was forced to retreat.”

One way or another, the US will be retreating. Would you like to retreat now or after the financial collapse of the US?

“Please let me know when the UN is ready”

You seem to forget that the UN already had a role prior to the invasion, but that wasn’t to the Bush administration’s liking. Must not have been enough oil kickbacks in inspections.

“Except the Chinese would probably not be invading to establish democracy.”

Nope. They’ll be invading to stop fascism. If they haven’t capitulated by then.

“If 2–3 made it through, they would immediately defect and head to China town in San Francisco for a hot meal.”

I don’t want to hear Hank anymore saying anything about me calling people racists. You people make me ashamed to be a white Christian American redneck.

CMAR– “If you were a Kurd receiving NO electricity beyond generators in 12 years”

Blah blah blah… and if the US hadn’t trashed the country with bombs everyone would be in better shape right now.

“The problem with you, Michael, is that you can only spare sympathy for the bad guys.”

The problem with you is that you lack the capacity for empathy.

“what Zawahiri says he wants to do to achieve a caliphate in western Iraq.”

And how is a caliphate in Iraq going to affect you way down in Alabammy or whatever red(neck) state you’re from?

“So we agree that the terrorists won’t stop attacking Iraqi National Guard and police and civil servants just because the US leaves?”

You mean INSURGENTS. Stop watching so much Fox News. Your brain is melting. And yes, the US has unleashed a nice little civil war there, haven’t we?

So we agree that the terrorists won’t stop attacking Iraqi National Guard and police and civil servants just because the US leaves?

If you were a Sunni Ba’ath Party member, I suppose that’s true. If you were a foreign Arab (Palestinians especially) receiving special government benefits from embezzled Oil-For-Food funds and mandated free rent, I sure that’s true too.

If you were a Kurd receiving NO electricity beyond generators in 12 years, or a Shi’a in the south being intermittently punished by withdrawal of electricity and water then I would say that’s very disputable indeed.

Not to mention the constant fear of being arrested/tortured on a whim and no hope of things getting better.

The problem with you, Michael, is that you can only spare sympathy for the bad guys.

The solution is for the US to get out of Iraq and allow a UN peace force to reinstate order until a proper democratic government can be elected without US interference

Hmmm…that is almost exactly what Zawahiri says he wants to do to achieve a caliphate in western Iraq. Perhaps you two should get together and share. I’m sure you’d have a lot in common politically.

I’ll be sure to tell Americans in 50 years time, when they are fighting Chinese tanks, that if only they would put their weapons down, the violence would stop.

Excellent point.

Except the Chinese would probably not be invading to establish democracy. Also, it would be tough to pull off because every single Chinese soldier would be fish food at the bottom of the Pacific.

If 2–3 made it through, they would immediately defect and head to China town in San Francisco for a hot meal.

The solution is for the US to get out of Iraq and allow a UN peace force to reinstate order until a proper democratic government can be elected without US interference.

Hmmmm. Considering that Iraq has already appealed to the UN for help and the UN has not lifted a finger, I wonder how this might work.

Mikey suggests that the US pull out and then… The UN will come in set things straight.

I’m trying to recall a major UN peacekeeping operation that did not include members of the current coalition. Since France/Germany have ruled out sending troops, I wonder who will provide the soldiers?

a proper democratic government can be elected without US interference

Thats a good one Mikey. Since no other countries have lifted a finger to help Iraq in a real mortal struggle to establish democracy and defeat terrorism, I wonder what would motivate and qualify them to do it after the US/coalition left?

Here’s a win win solution:

After the referendum, the UN forms up a few divisions of well equipped soldiers from member nations to come in and help establish security. The US could hand over regions one by one to the new forces. As this happens, US/coalition forces could begin to draw down.

US wins because its goals of overthrowing Saddam and helping establish democracy have been met.

The UN would win because they will at last be perceived as an organization interested in and capable of supporting democracy.

Mikey would win because he could claim that the US was forced to retreat.

Does this sound fair?

Please let me know when the UN is ready so I can tell my buddies to start packing their bags…

The problem is that Iraq in Saddam’s time , even with the vindictive sanctions, was in much better shape than it is now, that’s an indisputable fact. The solution is for the US to get out of Iraq and allow a UN peace force to reinstate order until a proper democratic government can be elected without US interference.

Good.