By JOHN ROBB
Despite this setback, the military and the Bush administration continue to claim progress, though this progress appears to be measured in the familiar metric of body counts. According to the military, it kills or captures 1,000 to 3,000 insurgents a month. Its estimate of the insurgency, however, is a mere 12,000 to 20,000 fighters. Something is clearly wrong. Simple math indicates we have destroyed the insurgency several times over since it started.
Funny, I’d just read the same article on John Robb’s weblog.
There’s an interesting critique of the article as well. And it’s more optimistic:
U.S. nabs al-Qaida Web site producer
Propaganda site was unusually quiet during weekend referendum
Several other Web sites operated by local Iraqi insurgents are open to the public. They are primarily propaganda tools in the battle for the hearts and minds of the Iraqi population.
Unlike al-Qaida, which justifies its war as a defense of the religion of Islam against western infidels, most local insurgents use Web sites to appeal to political and nationalist sentiments, arguing the new Iraqi government is allowing outsiders to dictate the future of the nation.
The “Albasrah” Web site, for example, is sympathetic to insurgents who are former members of Saddam Hussein’s Baathist regime. They praised as “patriotic” the March 2005 assassination of Azzad Ahmed, one of the judges on the tribunal that will try Saddam for war crimes, genocide and crimes against humanity, beginning this week.
All of which raises the interesting and secretive prospect that American security experts are monitoring and hacking these Web sites to gather up both information and members of the insurgency and their supporters.
That might explain why one of the top propaganda operatives of “al-Qaida in Iraq” was caught by the Americans and why his Web site was so quiet during the referendum.
Despite this setback, the.…
where is the linky?
Keld– “We need to wage peace from the outside in, spreading connectivity, not wage war from the inside out, hoping for democracy. We will never win in Iraq. Globalization will.”
Because there is no real change being made to Iraq, when the oil begins to wane, chaos will again reign.
Jeff– “U.S. nabs al-Qaida Web site producer”
You’re like a dog with a bone.
“American security experts are monitoring and hacking these Web sites”
Is that why I couldn’t get on the site over the weekend? Damn spooks.
HO– “where is the linky?”
Right here.
Is this one better…?
Somali Islamic militias raid movie studio
MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) — Dozens of gunmen loyal to Islamic courts stormed a video studio in Somalia’s capital on Monday, destroying equipment and confiscating hundreds of tapes that were being translated into the Somali language.
The courts consider watching movies, listening to music, dancing and many other forms of entertainment un-Islamic.
Somali Islamic militias raid movie studio
MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) — Dozens of gunmen loyal to Islamic courts stormed a video studio in Somalia’s capital on Monday, destroying equipment and confiscating hundreds of tapes that were being translated into the Somali language.
The courts consider watching movies, listening to music, dancing and many other forms of entertainment un-Islamic.
“We are very proud that we closed down the biggest movie translating firm,” said Sharif Sheikh Ahmed, chairman of the Union of the Islamic Courts. “What’s considered as harmful to the public will be destroyed.”
The Islamic courts are increasingly projecting themselves as an alternative to the numerous warlords running a patchwork of clan-based fiefdoms in Somalia. They call for a government based on fundamentalist Islam.
No, ladybird has the worst hosting plan/hosting company on the planet…
Bush Popularity Drops
President Bush’s job approval rating continues to plummet, with 39 percent of Americans surveyed in the latest CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll supporting his performance, compared to 58 percent expressing disapproval.
In the latest poll, Bush’s support appeared to have eroded even among suburban residents, who had been among his strongest backers, falling from 51 percent in last month’s poll to 41 percent in the latest survey.
Among urban residents, his approval rating did not budge from 34 percent, and among rural residents it was almost the same, 44 percent versus 45 percent last month.
Bush’s base appeared to remain largely supportive, with 62 percent of respondents who described themselves as conservative approving of his performance, down from 68 percent last month.
Support from moderates fell from 40 percent to 32 percent, and remained about the same for liberals, rising from 14 percent to 17 percent.
And the GOP faithful remained overwhelmingly steadfast in their support, with 84 percent voicing approval, versus 85 percent in last month’s poll.
That was not the case among those who identified themselves as Democrats, whose support for Bush dropped from 15 percent to 8 percent.
Asked their opinion (on) Rove, 22 percent of respondents said it was favorable, down from 25 percent in July, and 39 percent said it was unfavorable, up from 34 percent in July.
But 39 percent said they were unsure, down from 41 percent in July’s poll. Both questions had a sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.
Jeff– “Is this one better…?”
Dog with a bone is a compliment brother. ;-)
Woohoo!! Impeach Bush!
Cheney for President 2006!!!
LOL!!!
Gangstas Clash with Nazis and Police
Jeff… you’re a goofus. ;-)
I actually thought that was pretty funny…
Gang members throw rocks at police and burn down a business, etc. protesting the Nazis, who where going to protest the black gang members for violence against whites and business owners in the area.
Israel Stonewalls Palestinians
Israel suspended security coordination with the Palestinians on Monday, an Israeli official said, following the killings of three Israeli settlers by Palestinians Sunday.
Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat told CNN the suspension of security contacts was the wrong decision and called it “unfortunate.”
“Those who plan these attacks want to undermine the contacts and [the] hope that has been developing in the minds of Israelis and Palestinians,” he said in a telephone interview.
“I urge the Israelis to understand that we need to continue talking. I also urge the good office of President Bush to exert every possible effort to resume the contacts,” Erakat added.
A melee broke out Saturday when protesters confronted members of the National Socialist Movement who had gathered at a city park.
“They do have a right to walk on the Toledo sidewalks,” Mayor Jack Ford said Sunday.
An angry mob, some of them gang members, threw baseball-sized rocks at police, vandalized vehicles and stores, and set fire to a bar. More than 100 people were arrested and one officer was seriously injured.
Does that any sense to you?
Jeff– “Gang members throw rocks at police and burn down a business”
Yeah, I admired the gangstas for their restraint too. I probably wouldn’t have been so magnanimous. ;-)
Why didn’t they after the damn Nazis? I would have!
Instead they(gang members) destroyed private property. That was the whole reason why the dipshit Nazis where protesting anyway. All it did was to prove the Nazis point.
Plamegate Continues
Why didn’t they go after the damn Nazis? I would have!
sorry.…typo!
“All it did was to prove the Nazis point.”
It doesn’t prove anything accept that white supremacists shouldn’t go down to the ghetto alone. Nazis marching in the ghetto is nothing but antagonism and the Nazis got the rise the they were expecting.
oh, I definitely agree with that.
Saddam Trial Starts Wednesday — Dujail Massacre to be Examined
At the time, it went nearly unnoticed. The 1982 massacre in Dujail — the subject of Saddam Hussein’s trial that begins Wednesday — happened when few foreign journalists were based in Iraq, and the world’s interest was focused more on the threat from Iran.
Secret police later rounded up families, razed the town’s fruit groves, destroyed houses and executed nearly 150 people, some as young as 13, after a summary trial, according to those who will testify.
Some four months later, on Dec. 2, 1982, the magazine reported the town had been “erased from the map,” apparently in retaliation by Saddam.
At the time, the Arab world stood firmly behind Saddam in his struggle against Persian Iran. Egypt, for example, which had the most vibrant press, reported little or nothing about the massacre.
The United States and the rest of the Western world also were focused on using Saddam as a bulwark against Iran, after the 1979 rise to power of the Islamic regime led by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.
Saddam Trial: Few Knew About 1982 Massacre
Tuesday October 18, 2005 12:31 AM
AP Photo BAG115
By SALAH NASRAWI
Associated Press Writer
CAIRO, Egypt (AP) — At the time, it went nearly unnoticed. The 1982 massacre in Dujail — the subject of Saddam Hussein’s trial that begins Wednesday — happened when few foreign journalists were based in Iraq, and the world’s interest was focused more on the threat from Iran.
Even inside Iraq, little was known about the assassination attempt on Saddam that led to the executions of nearly 150 people from Dujail. Critics have long contended more attention should have been paid — to all of his atrocities.
It was years before any real attention was paid to the retribution inflicted on Dujail, a town 50 miles north of Baghdad that was a center of opposition to Saddam.
Interviews with Dujail survivors since Saddam’s fall in 2003, including an Associated Press story in May 2003, have made the events there clearer. The Iraqi court trying Saddam and seven others will decide who was to blame.
At the time, the town was a stronghold of the Dawa Party, a Shiite Muslim movement that was staging attacks on Saddam’s secular Sunni-dominated regime to protest his war with neighboring Iran, a predominantly Shiite country.
As Saddam’s motorcade entered Dujail for a meeting on July 8, 1982, Dawa gunmen opened fire from palm groves, triggering a battle that lasted for hours. Iraqi army helicopter gunships and infantry finally rescued Saddam.
Secret police later rounded up families, razed the town’s fruit groves, destroyed houses and executed nearly 150 people, some as young as 13, after a summary trial, according to those who will testify.
One of the few contemporaneous accounts came in the Economist magazine, which on July 31, 1982, reported that Dujail had been the site of an “assassination attempt that looked more like a military engagement.”
Some four months later, on Dec. 2, 1982, the magazine reported the town had been “erased from the map,” apparently in retaliation by Saddam.
The next month, the Economist sent a reporter to Iraq — at the invitation of Saddam’s government, which had denied the Dec. 2 report.
He found a large swath of the village seemed to have been razed. The Economist noted, however, that its reporter did not talk to any Dujail townspeople, because to ask them what had happened could have meant their deaths at the hands of Saddam’s intelligence forces.
Saddam’s government didn’t acknowledge anything about events in Dujail for two years, and then only to report the assassination attempt on Saddam. That came in a book by the dictator’s half brother and chief of intelligence, Barzan Ibrahim Al-Tikriti, boasting of the notorious service’s ability to instill fear in the hearts of enemies.
British Broadcasting Corp. on Wednesday posted on its Web site a gallery of what it said were newly discovered images taken from a film shot by Saddam’s official cameraman on July 8, 1982, showing the dictator being greeted by civilians in Dujail before addressing a crowd.
No images are shown of the assassination attempt. But Saddam, wearing army fatigues and a black beret, is later seen talking to a man identified as one of the surviving suspects after the others had been killed.
Saddam then returns to the town and addresses another large group of people, blaming the assassination attempt on “agents of foreigners” — an apparent reference to Iran — and promising to pursue the “small number of traitors” in Dujail.
Faisal Fikri, an Iraqi activist in the anti-Saddam dissident movement at the time, recalled recently that news about Saddam’s atrocities was circulating among Iraqi exiles. But Arab media, mostly government-controlled, were hesitant to write anything.
“We were begging them to tell the stories of how Saddam was ruling by fear and terror, and the answer was always shaking their shoulders,” Fikri said at his Cairo apartment while carrying a binder thick with papers and photos documenting Saddam’s crimes.
“It was a deliberate total blackout,” he said.
At the time, the Arab world stood firmly behind Saddam in his struggle against Persian Iran. Egypt, for example, which had the most vibrant press, reported little or nothing about the massacre.
The United States and the rest of the Western world also were focused on using Saddam as a bulwark against Iran, after the 1979 rise to power of the Islamic regime led by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.
Indeed, Western governments rarely spoke out against measures taken by Arab leaders to crush Islamic extremists. Five months before Dujail, for example, Syrian President Hafez Assad killed an estimated 20,000 people in the extremist hotbed of Hama with little protest internationally.
Some Arab critics say the lack of U.S. condemnation created a climate in which Saddam felt free to commit crimes.
Mamdouh el-Sheik, an Egyptian writer who has researched Saddam’s coverage by the world’s media, contends the Iraqi leader’s abuses occurred “not only with Western knowledge, but with Western consent and complicity.”
Screwed up that post. Sowwy.
Wistelblower Demoted By Army
For years, Greenhouse received stellar evaluations from superiors — until she raised objections about secret, no-bid contracts awarded to Kellogg, Brown & Root (KBR) — a subsidiary of Halliburton, the mega-corporation Vice President Dick Cheney once presided over. After telling Congress that one Halliburton deal was “the most blatant and improper contract abuse I have witnessed during the course of my professional career”, she was reassigned from “the elite senior executive service … to a lesser job in the civil works division of the corps”.
Iraqi Voter Fraud to be Investigated
Iraq’s election commission announced Monday that officials were investigating “unusually high” numbers of “yes” votes in about a dozen provinces during Iraq’s landmark referendum on a new constitution, raising questions about irregularities in the balloting.
Word of the review came as Sunni Arab leaders repeated accusations of voter fraud after initial reports from the provinces suggested the constitution had passed. Among their allegations were that police took ballot boxes from heavily “no” districts, that some “yes” areas had more votes than registered voters and that supporters of the charter were allowed to vote in crucial provinces where they do not live.
UK Troops Falter Under Abuse Claims
The death of a top British military police investigator in his Basra quarters at the weekend deals another heavy blow to the morale of a force of military investigators operating under enormous strain in Iraq.
The Ministry of Defence has yet to confirm how Captain Ken Masters became the 96th British serviceman to die in Iraq since the start of hostilities in March 2003. Last night the MoD declined to rule out suicide. Whatever the verdict, Cpt Masters was a part of a unit in Iraq facing formidable and conflicting demands.
Cpt Masters is not the first member of the Royal Military Police’s special investigation branch to be found dead in their quarters. A year ago Staff Sergeant Denise Rose, who was also serving with the SIB, was found dead from a gunshot wound at a military camp in Basra.
US Death Toll in Iraq
As of Sunday, Oct. 16, 2005, at least 1,976 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count. At least 1,531 died as a result of hostile action, according to the military’s numbers. The figures include five military civilians.
The British military has reported 96 deaths; Italy, 26; Ukraine, 18; Poland, 17; Bulgaria, 13; Spain, 11; Slovakia, three; Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Thailand and the Netherlands, two each; and Hungary, Kazakhstan and Latvia one death each.
Since May 1, 2003, when President Bush declared that major combat operations in Iraq had ended, 1,837 U.S. military members have died, according to AP’s count. That includes at least 1,422 deaths resulting from hostile action, according to the military’s numbers.
Rligious Agenda Pushed for Schools
The school board is defending its decision a year ago to require students to hear a statement on intelligent design before ninth-grade biology lessons on evolution.
Congressman Roscoe Bartlett Addresses House on Peak Oil as a National Security Issue
There is no link to an article on this because it was something I watched on CSPAN today. Dr. Bartlett (R-MD) had charts and graphs depicting oil consumption over the past 100 years and projected supply and demand over the next quarter century or so. Congressman Bartlett’s view of “peak oil” was startling to this viewer due to the fact that I had never seen a Republican admit oil was actually going to run out.
Kudos to Dr. Bartlett on trying to bring the Republicans up to speed on the state of world affairs.
US Drops JDAM on Toilet Block
Reports have come in that a US B-1 bomber has dropped four 2000 pound bombs on a unisex toilet block in Baghdad a few hours ago. US officials suggested that these unisex toilet blocks prove just how backward, on a moral level, the Iraqi government have been in running the country and have pledged to destroy every last one of them using whatever force they feel necessary.
“Only in this way can we truly liberate the Iraqi people and fast track them into a moral structure similar to what we have in the West”
Debate on this issue is escalating with countries like Japan and India leading in the opposition to this new tactic. “We like having wee wees and poos together and are not ashamed of our genitalia.” Suki Oshikago said in Tokyo this evening.
The JDAM bombs were released 15 miles from their targets, and as they fell, the satellite signals were captured by a tiny radio receiver which in turn updated a small inertial navigation system.
An electric motor then moves fins on the tail assembly so the JDAM bomb moves up or down, left or right until it hones in on the precise pre-programed longitude and latitude of these mixed dunnies. US pilots refer to a successful hit on a toilet block as a “love shack”.
Mahmoud Al jaBah was talking to his wife on his mobile phone seconds before the first ‘love shack’ attack. Holding back tears talking to Al Jazeera she said her husband had just said: “Honey, I think those Psyllium seed husks are working” and then ‘Boom!’.
The JDAM bombs are much cheaper to launch than cruise missiles. A $27 000 kit allows the US airforce to create 2 000 pound JDAM bombs using surplus bombs left over from the Vietnam War and even WWII. A cruise missile in comparison costs between $500,000 — $1 million US dollars. “Far too many bickies to be spent on knocking down dunnie doors no matter how corrupt they are! These toilets are more proof that the Iraqi regime is out of control and a danger to Western values” a US soldier said.
In response to the criticism sure to come from CMAR, Jon reponded, “Yes, I know this is a joke, but it’s funny”
Regarding the constitutional process…
“Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities.“
–Ayn Rand
Looks like Thomas Friedman has found the Final Solution in Iraq:
Most of Iraq’s neighbors from the west side (Jordan. Syria), south (Kuwait, Saudi Arabia), North (Turkey) are Sunnis also
Other words they will never allows this to happen.
Actually, the Kurds are Sunni too. I think the adjoining powers are beginning to not care HOW Iraq shakes out as long as it doesn’t undermine their own tyrannies. For the Islamists to set up shop in Anbar would be very destablizing. None of them said “boo” to Saddam killing Iraqis of all sects. I doubt they would have a problem if the recalcitrant Sunni Arabs “disappeared”.
If I were a Sunni Arab, I wouldn’t depend on the surrounding powers rescuing me. Best to make an accommodation with the Shi’a Arabs and Kurds.
But I don’t think that will happen. The Sunni Arabs are rapidly being incorporated into the political process, and they seem to be as sick of the terrorists as everyone else. Saddam’s Orphans and the Islamists are noisy, but they don’t represent Iraq, which is made up of people who want to get on with living. Freidman is a Chicken Little.
CMAR, they have never cared.
BTW: There is truth to claim, subscribed to by Ladbird and others, that the end should never justify the means. (The more flippant proponents of this war would have done well to note that.)
But, there is also truth to the claim that the end should never be ignored simply because of the means.
Also, Fareed Zacharia is correct that neither the ultimate success or failure of this war is yet known. Anyone on either side who claims otherwise is a propagandist. I have seen a lot of propaganda from the Bush administration, and I have seen a lot here.
I agree with Ladybird that this constitution should be voted down. I think that will lead to the most peaceful result. I agree with her for reasons other than hers of course: she wants to poke her finger in America’s eye, whereas I think that the Sunnis have realized their error in not voting earlier this year (largely egged on by people like Ladybird — for instance, I’m sure her sister did not vote), and if the whole thing were redone the government would be more representative and secular.
Far easier to blame America for the Islmaist, Shiite tint of the current Iraq administration than to blame the millions of more secular Sunnis who initially boycotted the process.
Ken,
I lean toward voting it down for the very reasons you give. But there are downsides to voting “No” that I think will cause fence-sitters who actually live in Iraq to vote “Yes”:
1) It is demoralizing to start over if you were not one of those who passed on your chance to vote last time (and most people did not). That’s why many people who are ideologically committed to Iraq’s failure are saying “vote No”. Of course, many are saying that just to stick their thumb in Duyba’s eye, as you said. But that comes to the same thing. For people who want to “get on with it”, it’s just very daunting.
2) There is no guarantee that restarting the constitution process will lead to a better or even more secular constitution: it could lead to less, it could lead to a break up of the country. This constitution, for whatever flaws it has, represents a lot of accommodations that will have to be restarted if the constitution does not pass this time.
3) The constution is already little more than a frame work that the new elected parliament is expected to hash out. So a rewrite is unnecessary on the merits of the document itself.
4) There is a very real risk that Americans will lose patience with Iraqis before enough election cycles pass for the government to gain legitimacy; that the (phony) peacenik wing of the US will gain the upper hand far too soon for Iraq’s good. “Moving forward for moving forward’s sake” has some logic to it.
CMARII, those are good points.
I can’t argue against point 4.
As for point 1, I think that the change they made in the final days to allow constitution re-writes next year was crucial. Until then, I had very little hope that this constitution would lead to anything but more violence. While I worry about supporters getting demoralized, I worry more about fence-sitting detractors giving their heart and soul to war on the government.
On point 2, yes, but there are no guarantees about anything. I think the last year of incompetent Iraqi government largely influenced by Shiite Islamists would make people a little less gung-ho to vote for Sciri people, etc., and a bit more likely to go back to an Allawi. That combined with increased Sunni participation would lead to a far different result in parliament.
On point 3, agreed, the change made me feel a lot better. To some extent my negativity about the constitution derives from lingering feelings created before the change was made, I admit. The very fact that so many people voted, whether yes or no, made me happy.
Now if only they can resolve these voting irregularities. Yet, even allegations of voting irregularities are a far-cry from 100% assured results for the benevolent leader. PS on voting: It amazes me that SOME people see no contradiction between claiming that voting makes no difference because America controls all of the results…and on the other hand devoting much print to the claim that the war is over, and America let its enemy Iran win. That these two claims can be reconciled, even in the most hate-addled brain, astounds me.
CMAR– “I think the adjoining powers are beginning to not care HOW Iraq shakes out as long as it doesn’t undermine their own tyrannies.”
Which quite reminds me of the Bush administration…
“There is a very real risk that Americans will lose patience with Iraqis before enough election cycles pass for the government to gain legitimacy”
Too late. We lost patience as soon as we found out Bush was just in it for the oil.
“that the (phony) peacenik wing of the US will gain the upper hand far too soon for Iraq’s good.”
Support for the war has dropped below 40% and it’s a phony movement? Nope, I think people really are getting tired of this war.
Is there another choice?
Ken– “I think the last year of incompetent Iraqi government”
Incompetent? Try inexperienced. It is the Bush administration that is incompetent.
“The very fact that so many people voted, whether yes or no, made me happy.”
They are probably hoping it’s the fastest way to get America’s fingers out of their oil business.
“SOME people see no contradiction between claiming that voting makes no difference…and on the other hand devoting much print to the claim that the war is over”
I usually see those views being held by two different types of people rather than both views by one person. The whole situation is a crap shoot. It could work out for the better in the end or it could turn out to be our biggest Islamic nightmare. Only time will tell. Only someone who is morally bankrupt will believe the means don’t matter. It’s the journey and not the destination that matters. Evil means will bring evil results even if we can’t foresee what those could be from our current vantage point.
Way to crucially edit the sentence, Jon. In fact, the owner of this blog as made both of those claims, or approvingly posted material to that effect.
Also, if the US had really lost patience, we’d be gone. We’re close, but not there yet. I’ll freely admit that the Bush administration is incompetent; though I’d also bet money you youself hold diametrically opposing views by thinking they are also evil. Where’s the logic? Just as, where’s the logic in simultaneously thinking that (and here, I’ll spell it out for you): America has handed Iraq to Iran, whom America hates; and B) that everything in Iraq is simply controled by America so there is no point in voting?
Ken– “Way to crucially edit the sentence”
When I quote something, you might see me clip out parts of what someone says. This is simply to avoid posting the whole blog over again numberous times in full. It’s a space thing and the original quote is just a couple scrolls up for you to read at your leisure. I put quotes in my notes so you can easily see what I am commenting on because this thing moves pretty fast with all the right-wing drivel being spewed. In general, I don’t try to deliberately alter a thought, even though, as I’ve tried to stress to people here before, content can be changed by the editing process no matter where it occurs. Please feel free to use your little scrolly wheel on your mouse thingy if you need to read his whole thought over again.
“the owner of this blog as made both of those claims”
I said usually.
“Also, if the US had really lost patience, we’d be gone.”
We won’t leave until we get some kind of handle on the oil production and distribution process.
“I’ll freely admit that the Bush administration is incompetent”
You think?
“diametrically opposing views by thinking they are also evil”
Define evil. Is it impossible to be incompetent and evil at the same time?
“America has handed Iraq to Iran”
That’s one possibility.
“that everything in Iraq is simply controled by America so there is no point in voting?”
Well, Iraq is definitely controlled by the people with all the tanks and planes and guns and bombs and shit so that part checks out. The point to voting, as I would think most Iraqis see it, is that the more people that vote, the sooner the US agrees to leave. Hopefully. So, what’s your point?
My point, to spell it out a third time, is that one cannot simultaneously believe that the US has handed Iraq to Iran (which it would never choose to do, and which has nevertheless come close to happening), and also believe that the US controls everything in Iraq. It’s logically inconsistent; it’s in fact moronic. Equally, it is inconsistent to claim, as you do, that Iraq is “definitely controlled by the people with guns and planes,” etc., while also claiming that those people in control are incompetent (which implies utter lack of intelligent control).
If you want me to write all of that out in crayon, and send it to you, send me your address.
I agree with you that the more people that vote in Iraq, the sooner the US will leave, and I think that’s what the US, even the incompetent people in control of this crazy operation, would like to see happen. Too bad it took the Sunnis two years to realize that. Too bad the owner of this blog still does not realize it. If these people had half a brain, they would vote, do everything the US has said it wants, and then demand that the US leave as it has promised to do. And then if the US at that point doesn’t leave, they would have a very good, objective case that it was all a sham. But to declare it all a sham before that opportunity is even taken, and to declare it again and again and again, indicates a less rational, or possibly evil, prejudice.
As to evil/incompetence. If one believes that certain events are the result of incompetence, this implies that there was a lack of intent to produce those undesired results (that’s the definition of incompetence — perhaps that’s the one you should focus on). Evil, on the other hand, requires intent. One cannot retrospectively say that anything you don’t like, or that turns out bad, was the result of evil. To do so destroys the definition of the word.
Interesting. But how do you suggest we get the US to stop stealing Iraqi oil and remove all our troops from Iraqi soil?
We’re only stealing Iraqi oil if you believe that letting private companies control oil, rather than giving control to the state, is inherently stealing. Because that’s what’s happening in Iraq; that’s what we’re encouraging.
Of course, if you think that, you must also socialistically think that the private companies, and somehow also America, are stealing Gulf Coast oil, and African oil, and Prudhoe Bay oil, etc., etc.; because of course those things operate on the same private model.
Golly, Jon, you must also have been quite pleased when Putin nationalized Yukos, and threw its owner in jail, because its owner (and the American company that was going to pay billions and billions of dollars for a share in Yukos) were by definition stealing Russian oil.
I will admit that there can occasionally be a very good argument for nationally owned natural resouces companies: Norway does it very well with their oil. But an unstable, democratically immature country is not the place for it. Private companies, accountable to shareholders accross the world, are much more likely to reduce corruption than any government the Iraqis are likely to elect in the next ten years.
Or to take another example, I think we can safely say that the oil operations privately run in the Gulf by American companies are both less corrupt, and more environmentally friendly than those run nationally by the Mexican government. Would you disagree?
Do you think the strategy of concentrating money and power from oil production in the hands of the state has proved good for Iran, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Russia, Argentina or Iraq (in the Saddam days)?
Please, enlighten me.
I ultimately don’t care how Iraqi oil profits are diseminated… as long as the Iraqis themselves are the ones who create the plan they end up living with. It’s really nobody’s business but theirs.
If they believe that profits will more fairly be shared throughout the population through communal ownership, then that is fine with me. If they think profits will best be shared with a select few reaping the bulk of the profit and the broad many receiving a minimum wage paycheck, that is fine with me too.