Why El Salvador?

El Salvador

The “

The lessons of El Sal­vador are newly rel­e­vant, with both crit­ics and pro­po­nents of the Bush admin­is­tra­tion draw­ing par­al­lels between the U.S. role in El Sal­vador in the early 1980s and the cur­rent sit­u­a­tion in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Refer­ring to this story “The Sal­vador Option”, and inspired by the exhi­bi­tion, a new arti­cle under the name “

Through the images cap­tured by these 30 pho­tog­ra­phers two decades ago we too see the bru­tal­ity of US mil­i­tarism and the deprav­ity of the crimes that the Amer­i­can rul­ing elite is pre­pared to carry out in order to defend its inter­ests and global domination.

Aljazeera.com wrote more on the new “ver­sion” of El Sal­vador option in their edi­to­r­ial few days ago:

The newest U.S. strat­egy: Iraqis kill each other instead of the Marines

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36 Responses to Why El Salvador?

  1. Nadia says:

    Very impor­tant sub­ject but I just have to sub­mit this com­ment off topic.

    The prison will be handed over when “Iraqi guards are con­fi­dent in their abil­ity to main­tain the same high-quality level of care and con­trol cur­rently main­tained by coali­tion forces,” the state­ment said.

    There is recon­struc­tion going on in Iraq! Pris­ons are what Iraqis needs. Not clean water, not elec­tric­ity, not a gov­ern­ment who respects our human rights and not end­ing polit­i­cal cor­rup­tion. No, we Iraqis need pris­ons it seems. Pris­ons run in the same

    Loss of mem­ory??!! On the other hand, is it just that the truth for them is so humil­i­at­ing that they have to act as if it never happened?!!!

    They really need to leave Iraq now, the mis­ery they cause in Iraq will fill sev­eral expe­di­tions in the Inter­na­tional Cen­ter of Photography.

  2. LadyBird says:

    Hmmm…. con­struc­tion of pris­ons is going with high speed

  3. Jon says:

    *While I was on vaca­tion, I watch an episode of Front­line which I thought would be of great inter­est to every­one here. It was enti­tled “Front­line: The Tor­ture Ques­tion” and is avail­able for view­ing online.*
    ___

    The Tor­ture Ques­tion” traces the aggres­sive devel­op­ment of the administration’s inter­ro­ga­tion pol­icy in the after­math of 9/11, where the push for “action­able intel­li­gence” led to autho­riza­tion for inter­roga­tors to strip detainees, degrade pris­on­ers with sex­ual humil­i­a­tion tech­niques and use dogs for intimidation.

  4. Jeff says:

    Screw tor­ture, just kill the bastards…

    accord­ing to michael, behead­ing is more humane…

    Off with their heads!!!

  5. Jon says:

    Just shut up and watch the show. You obvi­ously are com­pletely igno­rant to the sit­u­a­tion in US deten­tion facil­i­ties. Your cav­a­lier atti­tude on this sub­ject belies your lack of honor and your lack of con­cern for the rep­u­ta­tion of the US in the world community.

  6. Jon says:

    Quote time…

    First I have one for Charles and HO

    Dur­ing times of war, hatred becomes quite respectable, even though it has to mas­quer­ade often under the guise of patri­o­tism.“
    –Howard Thurman

    And here is one for Jeff…

    Col­lec­tive fear stim­u­lates herd instinct, and tends to pro­duce feroc­ity toward those who are not regarded as mem­bers of the herd.“
    –Bertrand Russell

  7. Jon says:

    The White House Crim­i­nal Con­spir­acy
    By Eliz­a­beth de la Vega

    Legally, there are no sig­nif­i­cant dif­fer­ences between the investor fraud per­pe­trated by Enron CEO Ken Lay and the pre­war intel­li­gence fraud per­pe­trated by George W. Bush. Both involved per­sons in author­ity who used half-truths and reck­lessly false state­ments to manip­u­late peo­ple who trusted them. There is, how­ever, a prac­ti­cal dif­fer­ence: The pres­i­den­tial fraud is wider in scope and far graver in its con­se­quences than the Enron fraud. Yet thus far the pub­lic seems par­a­lyzed.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10826.htm

    ___
    40 Killed as U.S. Bombs Iraqi Vil­lage
    A hos­pi­tal doc­tor in al-Qaim town con­firmed that 40 peo­ple had been killed and 20 wounded, many of them women and chil­dren. The area had been cut off by US forces, who had blocked roads pre­vent­ing peo­ple from leav­ing the vil­lage and going to al-Qaim
    http://tinyurl.com/7fab6

    ___
    Bush Planned Iraq ‘Regime Change’ Before Becom­ing Pres­i­dent
    A SECRET blue­print for US global dom­i­na­tion reveals that Pres­i­dent Bush and his cab­i­net were plan­ning a pre­med­i­tated attack on Iraq to secure ‘regime change’ even before he took power in Jan­u­ary 2001.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1221.htm

    ___
    New evi­dence’ backs Hicks’s tor­ture claim
    Lawyers for Guan­tanamo Bay detainee David Hicks say they have uncov­ered evi­dence sup­port­ing claims that the South Aus­tralian may have been the sub­ject of organ­ised tor­ture by Amer­i­can troops. — Hicks’s father Terry has detailed alle­ga­tions of phys­i­cal and sex­ual abuse of his son by Amer­i­can sol­diers.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10837.htm

    ___
    Bush Admin: Treaty Out­law­ing Tor­ture Doesn’t Apply Beyond US Soil
    Pres­i­dent George W. Bush recently promised to use his veto power for the first time ever to stop an amend­ment pro­posed ear­lier this month by Sen­a­tor John McCain that would out­law cruel, inhu­man, and degrad­ing treat­ment of peo­ple held by the U.S. mil­i­tary any­where in the world.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10835.htm

    ___
    Bush and Hitler: What The ‘Tor­ture Memos’ Reveal
    In the Spring of 1941, as Nazi Ger­many was prepar­ing to invade the Soviet Union, Adolf Hitler issued an infa­mous edict which has become known as the “Com­mis­sar Order,” to gov­ern the con­duct of Ger­man armed forces on the East­ern Front. This order pro­vides a largely-unnoticed prece­dent for the “legal” ratio­nal­iza­tions found in a num­ber of hitherto-secret Bush Admin­is­tra­tion legal mem­o­randa, which have recently come to light.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6396.htm

    ___
    USA / Afghanistan: More deaths and impunity
    Amnesty Inter­na­tional said today that recent rev­e­la­tions about deaths in cus­tody and abuses by US troops in Afghanistan are fur­ther evi­dence of a cul­ture of dis­re­spect for fun­da­men­tal rights in the “war on ter­ror” which the US has failed to ade­quately address.
    http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR511722005

    ___
    Alito Sup­ports Unau­tho­rized Strip Searches
    In Doe v. Groody, Alito agued that police offi­cers had not vio­lated con­sti­tu­tional rights when they strip searched a mother and her ten-year-old daugh­ter while car­ry­ing out a search war­rant that autho­rized only the search of a man and his home. [Doe v. Groody, 2004]
    http://thinkprogress.org/2005/10/31/samuel-alitos-america

    ___
    Alito: Where were you in ’72?
    A lot has been said this morn­ing about Samuel Alito, Pres­i­dent Bush’s nom­i­nee for the Supreme Court, and his impec­ca­ble legal resume. Well, here’s one por­tion of his resume we hope gets some very, very close scrutiny over the next few weeks, before his con­fir­ma­tion hear­ings.
    http://thinkprogress.org/2005/10/31/samuel-alitos-america

    ___
    Report: Bush fundrais­ers got $1.2 bil­lion in pub­lic funds
    Thirty Ohioans who raised a com­bined $4.1 mil­lion for Pres­i­dent Bush’s re-election cam­paign have received more than $1.2 bil­lion in pub­lic funds for their com­pa­nies and clients, a news­pa­per reported.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10840.htm

    ___
    Indict­ing Amer­ica
    *By Scott Rit­ter*
    The indict­ment of I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby by Spe­cial Pros­e­cu­tor Patrick J. Fitzger­ald pro­vides the most cogent and vis­i­ble evi­dence to date of the crim­i­nal mind­set that exists inside the Bush admin­is­tra­tion regard­ing the deci­sion to invade Iraq.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10820.htm

    ___
    Scooter Meet José Padilla
    Sud­denly, Bush Embraces Right of Fair Tri­als
    *By Dave Lin­dorff*
    When Pres­i­dent Bush was con­fronted by reporters as he left the White House for Camp David fol­low­ing the announce­ment of the five indict­ments of, and the res­ig­na­tion of Vice Pres­i­dent Dick Cheney chief of state I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, he offered up a lame com­ment, which at the same time exposed him as a grotesque hyp­ocrite.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10810.htm

    ___
    2,000 US Troops Dead In Iraq: One Sur­vivor Tells His Story
    I went to fight in Iraq to get revenge for 9/11… I found out Bush had led us into a war that was immoral and totally wrong
    http://tinyurl.com/bxb7k

  8. Jon says:

    Repub­li­cans Screw Every­one in Attempt to Cut Budget

    House Repub­li­cans voted to cut stu­dent loan sub­si­dies, child sup­port enforce­ment and aid to firms hurt by unfair trade prac­tices as var­i­ous com­mit­tees scram­bled to piece together $50 bil­lion in bud­get cuts.

    More polit­i­cally dif­fi­cult votes — to cut Med­ic­aid, food stamps and farm sub­si­dies — were on tap Thurs­day as more pan­els weigh in on the bill.

  9. Jon says:

    Sen­ate Minor­ity Leader Calls for Rove Dismissal

    The Sen­ate minor­ity leader said Sun­day that Pres­i­dent Bush and Vice Pres­i­dent Dick Cheney owe the coun­try an expla­na­tion of “what’s going on” in the admin­is­tra­tion and called for White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove to be fired.

    I think not only should the pres­i­dent appear before the Amer­i­can pub­lic and explain what is going on and take a few ques­tions from the press, but cer­tainly the vice pres­i­dent should do that,” Sen. Harry Reid said on CNN’s “Late Edition.”

  10. Jon says:

    Con­ser­v­a­tives Attack Prosecutor

    A national con­ser­v­a­tive orga­ni­za­tion today is launch­ing a tele­vi­sion com­mer­cial in Austin and nation­ally com­par­ing Travis County Dis­trict Attor­ney Ron­nie Earle to an attack dog because of his pros­e­cu­tion of U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay.

    *I’ve never heard of any­one tak­ing out attack ads against a pros­e­cu­tor over an indict­ment before. Will this become the nor­mal activ­ity of crim­i­nals under indictment?*

  11. Jon says:

    More COl­lat­eral Dam­age — Brain Drain

    This just destroys the coun­try. It has a very neg­a­tive effect on the sit­u­a­tion in Iraq and on the country’s abil­ity to improve,” said Warda, who served in the interim gov­ern­ment of Ayad Allawi, which left office in late April.

  12. Jon says:

    *Learn­ing time for the rad­i­cal conservatives…*

    A Pyrrhic vic­tory is so called after the Greek king Pyrrhus, who, after suf­fer­ing heavy losses in defeat­ing the Romans in 279 B.C., said to those sent to con­grat­u­late him, “Another such vic­tory over the Romans and we are undone.”

    *The cost to the US and the world in gen­eral for the war in Iraq will be felt on all sides for gen­er­a­tions to come.*

  13. Jon says:

    Bush Nom­i­nee For High Court Is Deeply Trou­bling, Says Amer­i­cans United
    *Mon­day, Octo­ber 31, 2005*
    Church-State Watch­dog Group Says Alito Is Reli­gious Right Favorite

    Amer­i­cans United for Sep­a­ra­tion of Church and State today expressed strong con­cern over Pres­i­dent George W. Bush’s nom­i­na­tion of Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court.

    Alito, a judge on the 3rd U.S. Cir­cuit Court of Appeals since 1990, is a favorite of Reli­gious Right lead­ers who have pres­sured Bush to select a high court nom­i­nee who meets their lit­mus tests on con­sti­tu­tional issues.

    I am deeply trou­bled by this nom­i­na­tion,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, exec­u­tive direc­tor of Amer­i­cans United. “In sev­eral deci­sions, Judge Alito seems to be argu­ing for a closer rela­tion­ship between church and state.”

    Lynn noted that research by Amer­i­cans United’s Legal Depart­ment uncov­ered two cases deal­ing with government-sanctioned dis­play of reli­gious sym­bols, with Alito uphold­ing the reli­gious dis­plays both times. In another case, Alito ruled that a pub­lic school was required to post fly­ers and dis­trib­ute mate­ri­als for a fun­da­men­tal­ist Chris­t­ian group on the same basis as sec­u­lar com­mu­nity groups.

    Lynn noted that Reli­gious Right groups are cel­e­brat­ing the Alito nom­i­na­tion and that many have com­pared him to Jus­tice Antonin Scalia, an acer­bic oppo­nent of church-state separation.

    The coun­try deserves a Supreme Court jus­tice who will pro­tect the rights of all Amer­i­cans, not kow­tow to the demands of the Reli­gious Right,” Lynn said.

    The AU Legal Depart­ment, Lynn said, will con­tinue to research Alito’s record. Aside from court rul­ings, AU attor­neys will look for non-judicial writ­ings, such as pub­lic speeches and arti­cles, to flesh out his judi­cial philosophy.

  14. Jon says:

    WEASEL POLL 2005
    ================

    It’s time to vote for your favorite weasels of 2005. And when I say favorite, I mean the ones you would like to beat sense­less with another weasel.

    To vote, go to http://www.Dilbert.com. And by vote, I mean increase the odds that this unsci­en­tific poll will end up embar­rass­ing the weasels you dis­like the most.

  15. Charles says:

    The cost to the US and the world in gen­eral for the war in Iraq will be felt on all sides for gen­er­a­tions to come.

    And the ben­e­fits of the lib­er­a­tion of Iraq? Since you men­tion ‘gen­er­a­tions’, I won­der if you truly doubt that a demo­c­ra­tic Iraq will not ben­e­fit itself, the region, and the world in the geer­a­tions to come?

  16. Jeff says:

    Just shut up and watch the show. You obvi­ously are com­pletely igno­rant to the sit­u­a­tion in US deten­tion facil­i­ties. Your cav­a­lier atti­tude on this sub­ject belies your lack of honor and your lack of con­cern for the rep­u­ta­tion of the US in the world community.

    whatever…how in the fu@k do you know for sure what’s going on? You’ve been there? You’ve seen it for your­self? Or are you just a sheep fol­low­ing your lib­eral amer­ica hat­ing herd and going on pure hearsay?

    Thank your god I’m not in charge, I’d do what they do to their pow’s…cut off their sand flea heads then spit down their throats, then post it on the inter­net or give the footage to your Al-Jazeera bud­dies for the whole world to see.

    Oh, and why did you join the very mil­i­tary killing machine that you hate and despise?

  17. Charles says:

    First I have one for Charles and HO

    Jon,

    You are such a gullible child.

    Para­phrase from Russian:

    The stray dogs yap but the car­a­van plods slowly on…”

    Keep yap­ping Jon. I really think you are get­ting somewhere.

  18. Jon says:

    Charles– “And the ben­e­fits of the lib­er­a­tion of Iraq?”

    I don’t give a fuck if Iraq turns into Dis­ney­land after the occu­pa­tion. It doesn’t change the fact that Bush is a bold-faced liar who ille­gally waged a war of aggres­sion against a coun­try which posed no threat to the US and killed hun­dreds of tou­sands along the way.

    I won­der if you truly doubt that a demo­c­ra­tic Iraq will not ben­e­fit itself, the region, and the world in the geer­a­tions to come?”

    At this point, it looks like things could go either way. Sad­dam was no threat to the US and what results could end up being a grave threat. As far as you know, Iraqis will exist under a con­di­tion of civil war for the next cen­tury. Stop act­ing like you are some kind of phil­an­thropist. You prob­a­bly just want a steady sup­ply of petro­leum to fuel the lux­ury SUV you prob­a­bly drive. Or, maybe you are some kind of Armaged­don­ist and want to has­ten the Rap­ture. Who knows. Either way, you’re in the wrong.

    Jeff– “how in the fu@k do you know for sure what’s going on?”

    Because peo­ple are com­ing out of the wood­work fes­s­ing up. Depart­ment heads are bail­ing out in record num­bers. And are you going to argue with BG Karpin­ski who was there? What is it you find so hard to believe? That sol­diers do rot­ten things? That this admin­is­tra­tion is cor­rupt? Pull your head out of the sand and pay attention.

    You’ve been there? You’ve seen it for yourself?”

    So… you are say­ing you are going to con­tinue to ignore events until you see them for your­self? I per­son­ally don’t care about you. Or Charles. Or the rest of your con­tingient. You have proved your­selves unwill­ing to acknowl­edge the mis­deeds of the cur­rent admin­is­tra­tion and the mis­deeds of the sol­diers in the field. You all should prob­a­bly just ignore me and I will ignore you and con­tinue on attempt­ing to snap the elec­torate out of it’s stupor.

    Thank your god I’m not in charge”

    You’d have to leave the nuclear shel­ter I know that you’re hid­ing out in to do that.

    I’d do what they do”

    Exactly. You act like you are some­how bet­ter than a ter­ror­ist and we all know that you aren’t. You are just as hate-filled and vicious as the worst of them.

    Oh, and why did you join the very mil­i­tary killing machine that you hate and despise?”

    I joined to defend my nation. Not to go on impe­ri­al­is­tict galla­vants to mur­der inno­cent peo­ple, occupy their lands and steal their nat­ural resources. Duh. BTW… I’m not a paci­fist. But, I’m not a sadist like you and Bush. If a war is dis­hon­or­able I speak up and say it. You are just a cow­ard and can’t stand up to crit­i­cism so you just fol­low the crowd. The turth is more likely that you are clue­less and so you just fol­low along with what­ever the loud­est con­ti­gent says. Sad.

    Charles– “Keep yap­ping Jon. I really think you are get­ting somewhere.”

    My con­science is clear. How about yours? Nice that you admit you are just fol­low­ing along with the car­a­van. Weak.

  19. Charles says:

    Jon,

    I don’t give a fuck if Iraq turns into Dis­ney­land after the occupation.

    That’s quite mature of you.

    It doesn’t change the fact that Bush is a bold-faced liar

    Why do you keep par­rot­ing that non­sense? What did he lie about? Since Wilson/Plame is in the news, let’s con­sider that for a moment. Bush made the claim in his speech that British intel­li­gence had reported that Sad­dam had tried to acquire ura­nium con­cen­trate in Africa. Wil­son went there and reported back to CIA that the PM of Niger con­firmed that in 1999 an Iraqi del­e­ga­tion had met with him to dis­cuss trade deals. Since the PM knows that the ONLY frig­gin thing that Niger exports is ura­nium, he con­cluded that they wanted ura­nium. Wil­son pro­vided no new infor­ma­tion to dis­prove this and his report actu­ally con­firmed it.

    A bipar­ti­san Sen­ate inves­ti­ga­tion into the mat­ter con­firmed this and found no wrong­do­ing on behalf of Bush. The But­ler report also con­firmed that Bush’s state­ment was rea­son­able. Where was the lie?

    who ille­gally waged a war of aggression

    To enforce UN dis­ar­ma­ment res­o­lu­tions. Just because YOU say it is ille­gal, doesn’t make it ille­gal Jon.

    against a coun­try which posed no threat to the US

    You will be hard pressed to find any politi­cian on any side of the aisle who would ever try to make the case that Sad­dam was not a threat. Same for UNSC.

    and killed hun­dreds of tou­sands along the way.

    Now its hun­dreds of thou­sands that the US has killed? Who is the liar Jon?

    At this point, it looks like things could go either way.

    As with most con­flicts, there are dif­fer­ent sides and each one wants to prevail.

    Sad­dam was no threat to the US

    WRONG.

    and what results could end up being a grave threat.

    Typ­i­cal of most vio­lent con­flicts against vio­lent and mur­der­ous peo­ple. Is there a par­tic­u­lar side or group that you would like to see pre­vail in this?

    As far as you know, Iraqis will exist under a con­di­tion of civil war for the next century.

    1942 — Allies were being trounced on all sides, no hope in sight, let’s just throw in the towel because this damn war could last for­ever and it looks like we can­not win…

    You prob­a­bly just want a steady sup­ply of petro­leum to fuel the lux­ury SUV you prob­a­bly drive.

    Do please explain how start­ing a war in themidst of the worlds largest oil reserves will result in lower fuel prices.

    Or, maybe you are some kind of Armaged­don­ist and want to has­ten the Rap­ture. Who knows. Either way, you’re in the wrong.

    You haven’t been right about any­thing Jon. That is a pat­tern of thought you should ponder.

  20. Michael says:

    OPEC AND THE ECONOMIC CONQUEST OF IRAQ
    http://www.gregpalast.com/printerfriendly.cfm?artid=471
    Why Iraq Still sells its oil à la car­tel
    Twi­light of the neo­con gods
    Harper’s
    Mon­day, Octo­ber 24, 2005
    By Greg Palast

    By spe­cial arrange­ment with Harper’s mag­a­zine, we are repro­duc­ing here for the first time the entire updated arti­cle on the US government’s secret schemes for seiz­ing con­trol of the oil fields of Iraq.

    On Sat­ur­day, Octo­ber 22, the Greg Palast inves­tiga­tive team received a Project Cen­sored award, the “alter­na­tive Pulitzer Prize,” for uncov­er­ing the State Department’s con­fi­den­tial pre-war plans for the eco­nomic con­quest of Iraq.
    …For months, the State Depart­ment denied the exis­tence of this 323-page document …

    *****

    …The switch to an OPEC-friendly pol­icy for Iraq was dri­ven by Dick Cheney him­self. “The per­son who is most influ­en­tial in run­ning Amer­i­can energy pol­icy is the Vice Pres­i­dent,” who, said the insider, “thinks that secu­rity begins by … let­ting prices fol­low wher­ever they may.”

    **********

    Two and a half years and $202 bil­lion into the war in Iraq, the United States has at least one sig­nif­i­cant new asset to show for it: effec­tive mem­ber­ship, through our con­trol of Iraq’s energy pol­icy, in the Orga­ni­za­tion of the Petro­leum Export­ing Coun­tries (OPEC), the Arab-dominated oil cartel.

    Just what to do with this proxy power has been, almost since Pres­i­dent Bush’s first inau­gural, the cause of a pitched bat­tle between neo­con­ser­v­a­tives at the Pen­ta­gon, on the one hand, and the State Depart­ment and the oil indus­try, on the other. At issue is whether Iraq will remain a mem­ber in good stand­ing of OPEC, uphold­ing pro­duc­tion lim­its and thereby high prices, or a muti­nous spoiler that could top­ple the Arab oligopoly.

    Accord­ing to insid­ers and to doc­u­ments obtained from the State Depart­ment, the neo­cons, once in com­mand, are now in full retreat. Iraq’s sys­tem of oil pro­duc­tion, after a year of failed free-market exper­i­men­ta­tion, is being re-created almost entirely on the lines orig­i­nally laid out by Sad­dam Hus­sein.
    Under the quiet direc­tion of U.S. oil com­pany exec­u­tives work­ing with the State Depart­ment, the Iraqis have dis­carded the neo­con vision of a lais­sez faire, pri­va­tized oil oper­a­tion in favor of one shack­led to quo­tas set by OPEC, which have been key to the 148% rise in oil prices since the begin­ning of 2002. This rise is esti­mated to have cost the U.S. econ­omy 1.5% of its GDP, or a third of its total growth dur­ing the period.

    Given this eco­nomic blow, and given that OPEC states account for 46% of America’s oil imports, it may seem odd that the United States’ “remak­ing” of Iraq would allow for a national oil com­pany that props up OPEC’s price goug­ing. And in fact the orig­i­nal scheme for recon­struc­tion, at least the one favored by neo­con­ser­v­a­tives, was to pri­va­tize Iraq’s oil entirely and thereby under­mine the oil car­tel. One intel­lec­tual god­fa­ther of this strat­egy was Ariel Cohen of the Her­itage Foun­da­tion, who in Sep­tem­ber 2002 pub­lished (with Ger­ald P. O’Driscoll, Jr.) a post-invasion plan, “The Road to Eco­nomic Pros­per­ity for a Post-Saddam Iraq,” that put for­ward the idea of using Iraq to smash OPEC. Cohen explained to me how such an extra­or­di­nary geopo­lit­i­cal feat might be accom­plished. OPEC main­tains high oil prices by sup­press­ing pro­duc­tion through a quota sys­tem effec­tively imposed on each mem­ber by Saudi Ara­bia, which reigns by dint of its over­whelm­ing reserves. The Saudis, to main­tain their con­trol on pric­ing, must keep a lid on pro­duc­tion from other members-particularly Iraq, which has the sec­ond great­est proven reserves.

    Under Sad­dam Hus­sein, Iraq adhered to the OPEC quota limit (his­tor­i­cally set to equal Iran’s, now 3.96 mil­lion bar­rels a day) via state own­er­ship of all fields. Cohen rea­soned that if Iraq’s fields were bro­ken up and sold off, a dozen com­pet­ing oper­a­tors would quickly crank up pro­duc­tion from their indi­vid­ual patches to the max­i­mum pos­si­ble, swiftly rais­ing Iraq’s total out­put to 6 mil­lion bar­rels a day. This extra crude would flood world petro­leum mar­kets, OPEC would devolve into mass cheat­ing and over­pro­duc­tion, oil prices would fall over a cliff, and Saudi Arabia-both eco­nom­i­cally and polit­i­cally — would fall to its knees.

    By Feb­ru­ary 2003, Cohen’s posi­tion had been enshrined as offi­cial pol­icy, in the form of a hundred-page blue­print for the occu­pied nation titled, “Mov­ing the Iraqi Econ­omy from Recov­ery to Sus­tain­able Growth”-a plan that gen­er­ally embod­ied the prin­ci­ples for post­war Iraq favored by Defense Sec­re­tary Don­ald Rums­feld, Deputy Sec­re­tary Paul Wol­fowitz, and the Iran-Contra fig­ure Elliott Abrams, now Deputy National Secu­rity Adviser. Nom­i­nally writ­ten by a com­mit­tee of Defense, State, and Trea­sury offi­cials, the blue­print was in fact the brain­child of a pla­toon of cor­po­rate lob­by­ists, chief among them the flat­tax fanatic Grover Norquist. From over­haul­ing tax rates to rewrit­ing copy­right law, the doc­u­ment mapped out a rad­i­cal makeover of Iraq as a free-market Xanadu-a sort of Chile on the Tigris-including, on page 73, the sell-off of the nation’s crown jew­els: “pri­va­ti­za­tion… [of] the oil and sup­port­ing industries.”

    Fol­low­ing the U.S. military’s swift advance to Bagh­dad, those skep­ti­cal of the neo­con plan were sum­mar­ily brushed aside. Chief among the castoffs was Gen­eral Jay Gar­ner, the short­lived occu­pa­tion viceroy who on the very night he arrived in Bagh­dad from Kuwait received a call from Rums­feld inform­ing him of his dis­missal. When I met with Gar­ner last March at the Wash­ing­ton offices of L3 Corporation’s giant secu­rity sub­sidiary he now heads, the gen­eral told me that he had resisted impos­ing on Iraqis the plan’s sell-off of assets, espe­cially the oil. “That’s just one fight you don’t have to take on right now,” he said. “You don’t want to end the day with more ene­mies than you started with.”

    In plot­ting the destruc­tion of OPEC, the neo­cons failed to pre­dict the vir­u­lent resis­tance of insur­gent forces: the U.S. oil indus­try itself. From the out­set of the plan­ning for war, U.S. oil exec­u­tives had thrown in their lot with the prag­ma­tists at the State Depart­ment and the National Secu­rity Coun­cil. Within weeks of the first inau­gural, promi­nent Iraqi expatriates-many with ties to U.S. industry-were invited to secret dis­cus­sions directed by Pamela Quan­rud, an NSC eco­nom­ics expert now employed at State. “It quickly became an oil group,” one par­tic­i­pant, Falah Aljibury, told me. Aljibury, an adviser to Amer­ada Hess’s oil trad­ing arm and to invest­ment bank­ing giant Gold­man Sachs, who once served as a back chan­nel between the United States and Iraq dur­ing the Rea­gan and George H. W. Bush admin­is­tra­tions, cut ties to the Hus­sein regime fol­low­ing the inva­sion of Kuwait.

    The work­ing group’s ideas about the war had been far less starry-eyed than those of the neo­cons. “The petro­leum indus­try, the chem­i­cal indus­try, the bank­ing industry-they’d hoped that Iraq would go for a rev­o­lu­tion like in the past and gov­ern­ment was shut down for two or three days,” Aljibury told me. “You have a mar­tial law … and say Iraq is being lib­er­ated and every­body stay where they are … Every­thing as is.” On this plan, Hus­sein would sim­ply have been replaced by some for­mer Baathist gen­eral. One can­di­date was Gen­eral Nizar Khazraji, Saddam’s for­mer army chief of staff, who at the time was under house arrest in Den­mark pend­ing charges for war crimes. (Khazraji was seen in Iraq a month after the U.S. inva­sion, but he soon dis­ap­peared and has not been heard from since.)

    Roughly six months before the inva­sion, the Bush Admin­is­tra­tion des­ig­nated Philip Car­roll to advise the Iraqi Oil Min­istry once U.S. tanks entered Bagh­dad. Car­roll had been CEO of both Fluor Cor­po­ra­tion, now a major con­trac­tor in Iraq, and, ear­lier, of Royal Dutch/Shell’s U.S. divi­sion. In May 2003, a month after his arrival in Iraq, Car­roll made head­lines when he told the Wash­ing­ton Post that Iraq might break with OPEC: “[Iraqis] have from time to time, because of com­pelling national inter­est, elected to opt out of the quota sys­tem and pur­sue their own path.… They may elect to do that same thing. To me, it’s a very impor­tant national ques­tion.” Car­roll later told me, though, that he per­son­ally would not have been sup­port­ive of pri­va­tiz­ing oil fields. “Nobody in their right mind would have thought of doing that,” he said.

    Soon after Car­roll resigned his post in Sep­tem­ber 2003, the new pro­vi­sional gov­ern­ment appointed an oil min­is­ter, Ibrahim Bahr al-Uloum. Uloum (who had been maneu­vered into the job by then-neocon favorite Ahmad Cha­l­abi) quickly fired Muham­mad al-Jiburi, chief of Iraq’s State Oil Mar­ket­ing Orga­ni­za­tion, and Thamer Ghad­hban, the expert in charge of the south­ern oil fields, both of whom had been trusted by the West­ern oil indus­try. Pro­duc­tion fal­tered from a com­bi­na­tion of incom­pe­tence, whole­sale theft (Iraq’s oil was unmetered), sab­o­tage, and cor­rup­tion that one oil­man told me was “ram­pant,” with “direct pay­offs to gov­ern­ment offi­cials by com­mer­cial operators.”

    With pipelines explod­ing daily, the fan­tasy of remak­ing Iraq’s oil indus­try also went up in flames. Car­roll was replaced by another Hous­ton oil chief­tain, Rob McKee, a for­mer exec­u­tive vice-president of Cono­coPhillips and cur­rently the chairman-even dur­ing his tenure in Baghdad-of Enven­ture, an oil-drilling sup­ply sub­sidiary of the Hal­libur­ton Cor­po­ra­tion. McKee had lit­tle tol­er­ance for the neo­cons’ threat to pri­va­tize the oil fields. A close asso­ciate of McKee’s and the exec­u­tive adviser to Hess’s trad­ing arm, Ed Morse, told me that “Rob was very pro­mo­tive of putting in place a really strong national oil com­pany,” even if he had to act over the objec­tions of the Iraqi Gov­ern­ing Coun­cil. Morse, who says he takes as many as six calls a day from the Bush Admin­is­tra­tion regard­ing Iraq, is one of the men to whom Wash­ing­ton turns to obtain the views of Big Oil. Like Car­roll and McKee, Morse sneers at what he calls “the obses­sion of neo-conservative writ­ers on ways to under­mine OPEC.” Iraqis, says Morse, know that if they pump 6 mil­lion bar­rels a day, i.e., 2 mil­lion above their expected OPEC quota, “they will crash the oil mar­ket” and bring down their own economy.

    In Novem­ber 2003, McKee qui­etly ordered up a new plan for Iraq’s oil. The draft­ing would be over­seen by a “senior adviser,” Amy Jaffe, who had worked for Morse when he held the for­mi­da­ble title of Chair­man of the Coun­cil on For­eign Relations-James Baker III Insti­tute Joint Com­mit­tee on Petro­leum Secu­rity. Jaffe now works for Baker, the for­mer Sec­re­tary of State, whose law firm serves as coun­sel to both Exxon­Mo­bil and the defense min­is­ter of Saudi Ara­bia. The plan, nom­i­nally writ­ten by State Depart­ment con­trac­tor Bear­ing­Point, was guided, says Jaffe, by a hand­ful of oil indus­try con­sul­tants and executives.

    For months, the State Depart­ment offi­cially denied the exis­tence of this 323-page plan for Iraq’s oil, but when I iden­ti­fied the document’s title from my sources and threat­ened legal action, I was able to obtain the com­plete report, dated Decem­ber 2003 and enti­tled “Options for Devel­op­ing a Long Term Sus­tain­able Iraqi Oil Indus­try.” The multi-volume doc­u­ment describes seven pos­si­ble mod­els of oil pro­duc­tion for Iraq, each one merely a dif­fer­ent fla­vor of a sin­gle option: the cre­ation of a state-owned oil com­pany. The seven options ranged from the Saudi Aramco model, in which the gov­ern­ment owns the whole oper­a­tion from reserves to pipelines, to the Azer­bai­jan model, in which the state-owned assets are oper­ated almost entirely by “IOCs” (Inter­na­tional Oil Com­pa­nies). The drafters had lit­tle regard for the “self-financing” sys­tem, such as Saudi Arabia’s, which bars IOCs from the fields; they pre­fer the production-sharing agree­ment (PSA) model, under which the state main­tains offi­cial title to the reserves but oper­a­tion and con­trol are given to for­eign oil com­pa­nies. These com­pa­nies then man­age, fund, and equip crude extrac­tion in exchange for a per­cent­age of sales receipts.

    While pro­mot­ing IOC con­trol of the fields, the authors take care to warn the Iraqi gov­ern­ment against attempt­ing to squeeze IOC prof­its: “Coun­tries that do not offer risk-adjusted rates of return equal to or above other nations will be unlikely to achieve sig­nif­i­cant lev­els of invest­ment, regard­less of the rich­ness of their geol­ogy.” Indeed, to out­bid other nations for Big Oil’s favor will require Iraq to turn over quite a large share of prof­its, espe­cially when com­pet­ing against coun­tries such as Azer­bai­jan that have given away the store. The Azeri gov­ern­ment, notes the report, has “been able to par­tially over­come their risk pro­file and attract bil­lions of dol­lars of invest­ment by offer­ing a con­trac­tual bal­ance of com­mer­cial inter­ests within the risk con­tract.” This refers to the fact that Azer­bai­jan, despite its poor oil qual­ity and poor loca­tion, drew in the IOCs via scan­dalous splits of rev­enue allowed by the nation’s cor­rupt government.

    Given how eas­ily the inter­ests of OPEC and those of the IOCs can be aligned, it is cer­tainly under­stand­able why smash­ing the oil car­tel would not strike oil­men as a good idea. In 2004, with oil approach­ing the $50-a-barrel mark all year, the major U.S. oil com­pa­nies posted record or near record prof­its. Cono­coPhillips, Rob McKee’s com­pany, this Feb­ru­ary reported a dou­bling of its quar­terly prof­its from the pre­vi­ous year, which itself had been a com­pany record; Carroll’s for­mer employer, Shell, posted a record-breaking $4.48 bil­lion in fourth-quarter earn­ings. Exxon­Mo­bil last year reported the largest one-year oper­at­ing profit of any cor­po­ra­tion in U.S. history.

    When I talked to Ariel Cohen at Her­itage, his dream of smash­ing OPEC in sham­bles, he blamed the State Depart­ment for acqui­esc­ing to the Saudis and to Rus­sia, which also ben­e­fit s from sell­ing oil at high OPEC prices. The poi­so­nous poli­cies were influ­enced, he said, by “Arab econ­o­mists hired by the State Depart­ment who are basi­cally sup­port­ing the witches’ brew of the Saudi royal fam­ily and the Soviet ost­block … because the Saudis are inter­ested in max­i­miz­ing their mar­ket share and they’re not inter­ested in fast growth of the Iraqi output.”

    Accord­ing to Morse, the switch to an OPEC-friendly pol­icy for Iraq was dri­ven by Dick Cheney him­self. “The per­son who is most influ­en­tial in run­ning Amer­i­can energy pol­icy is the Vice Pres­i­dent,” who, says Morse, “thinks that secu­rity begins by … let­ting prices fol­low wher­ever they may.”

    Even, I asked, if those are arti­fi­cially high prices, set by OPEC? “The VP’s office [has] not pur­sued a pol­icy in Iraq that would lead to a rapid open­ing of the Iraqi energy sec­tor … so they have not done any­thing, either with pro­duc­ers or energy pol­icy, that would put us on a track to say, ‘We’re going to put a squeeze on OPEC.’”

    Oppo­si­tion to Iraq’s mem­ber­ship in OPEC was han­dled in a style that would have made Sad­dam proud. On May 20, 2004, Iraqi police raided Ahmad Chalabi’s home in Bagh­dad and carted away his com­put­ers and files. Cha­l­abi was hunted by his own gov­ern­ment: the charge was espi­onage, no less, for Iran. Chalabi’s Gov­ern­ing Coun­cil was soon shut down and, cru­cially, Bahr al-Uloum was yanked from the Oil Min­istry and replaced by the very men he had removed: Thamer Ghad­hban took al-Uloum’s job at the oil min­istry and Cha­l­abi rival Muham­mad al-Jiburi was made min­is­ter of trade.

    But just when you thought the fat lady sang for the neo-cons, who should rise from his crypt eight months later but Ahmad Cha­l­abi. In Jan­u­ary 2005, Cha­l­abi cut a deal with his for­mer oil min­is­ter al-Uloum’s father, a Shia power bro­ker, and rode that reli­gious eth­nic vote back into office. Cha­l­abi landed him­self the post of Sec­ond Deputy Prime Min­is­ter and, in addi­tion, the tan­ta­liz­ing title of Interim Oil Min­is­ter. The espi­onage inves­ti­ga­tion was dropped; the King of Jor­dan offered to par­don Cha­l­abi for the $72 mil­lion miss­ing from Chalabi’s for­mer bank; and Cha­l­abi once again turned over his oil min­istry to al-Uloum, the sheik’s son. The Tex­ans’ pro-OPEC man Ghad­hban was again kicked downstairs.

    But Cha­l­abi had learned his les­son: don’t mess with Texas, or the Texan’s favorite car­tel. A chas­tened Cha­l­abi now endorses Iraq’s coop­er­a­tion with OPEC’s fleec­ing of the planet’s oil consumers.

    And Dick Cheney, far from “putting the squeeze on OPEC,” has taken his de facto seat there, assent­ing by silence to the oil monopoly’s pirat­i­cal price goug­ing. But hasn’t OPEC’s stratos­pheric crude prices choked the life out of America’s auto indus­try and bank­rupted half a dozen air­lines? In the Vice-President’s bunker the elim­i­na­tion of jobs of Democratic-leaning union mem­bers is likely seen as a bonus for the good deed of boost­ing oil indus­try prof­its far above the ozone layer.

  21. Jeff says:

    I joined to defend my nation. Not to go on impe­ri­al­is­tict galla­vants to mur­der inno­cent peo­ple, occupy their lands and steal their nat­ural resources.

    LOL!!! What were you trained to do…? grow pretty flowers!

    And what resources are we steal­ing exactly…? Why didn’t we steal Kuwaits when we were there? Do you real­ize that the very key­board you’re typ­ing on is plastic…hint, hint… and what is a key incre­di­ent of plas­tic? Aren’t you con­tribut­ing to that theft that you speak of?

    If a war is dis­hon­or­able I speak up and say it. You are just a cow­ard and can’t stand up to crit­i­cism so you just fol­low the crowd. The turth is more likely that you are clue­less and so you just fol­low along with what­ever the loud­est con­ti­gent says.

    My rea­sons for sup­port­ing the war are quite sim­ple. Believe it or not…But after many years of the world, not bush…the fuck­ing world, telling me that Iraqis were suf­fer­ing under sad­dam, and they were, I wanted some­one with balls to remove him and actu­ally give the Iraqis a chance. Pretty fuck­ing sim­ple. But the idiots on this blog would rather the world con­tinue with the sta­tus quo. With every­thing that is tak­ing place on this planet, Iraq is actu­ally just a an extremely small prob­lem. But again, peo­ple on this blog have such small minds they can’t even com­pre­hend what is really going on in this world. Now that is sad…

    Exactly. You act like you are some­how bet­ter than a ter­ror­ist and we all know that you aren’t. You are just as hate-filled and vicious as the worst of them.

    blah, blah, blah…whatever. And you hate just as well. Your com­ments prove that very fact.

    …the last time I checked I wasn’t blow­ing up inno­cent peo­ple at night­clubs or on buses. Or behead­ing teenage girls because their chris­t­ian. Oh, but that’s right, You sup­port that kind of thing instead of stop­ping it. So who’s the one who is as vicious as the worst of them??? I sup­port using force to stop it, yet you sup­port turn­ing a blind eye to it and would rather see it con­tinue. Wake up Jon, There’s a whole world out there. It’s get­ting smaller everyday.

  22. Jon says:

    Charles– “That’s quite mature of you.”

    Waaah.

    Why do you keep par­rot­ing that nonsense?”

    I guess I’m just not as cred­u­lous as you are.

    What did he lie about?”

    WMDs in Iraq for starters.

    To enforce UN dis­ar­ma­ment res­o­lu­tions. Just because YOU say it is ille­gal, doesn’t make it ille­gal Jon.”

    The US is not autho­rized to enforce UN res­o­lu­tions with­out secu­rity coun­cil approval.
    http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110904A.shtml

    You will be hard pressed to find any politi­cian on any side of the aisle who would ever try to make the case that Sad­dam was not a threat.”

    Your logic assumes that *every­one* is a threat. Iraq took no aggres­sive action against the US. Under your logic, the US should wipe out every­one except for the US as they all pos­sess weapons that could con­ceiv­ably be used to attack the US.

    WRONG.”

    Because you say it doesn’t make it so.

    Is there a par­tic­u­lar side or group that you would like to see pre­vail in this?”

    Nope. It’s not our con­cern. Those peo­ple will have to fig­ure it out for them­selves and if we hadn’t been stick­ing our noses in Arab affairs, we would have been left out of it.

    1942”

    Com­par­ing Hus­sein to Hitler is false logic which destroys your whole argument.

    Do please explain how start­ing a war in themidst of the worlds largest oil reserves will result in lower fuel prices.”

    It won’t. Oil will run out regard­less how many Arabs we kill in the Petro­leum Wars. SUV will come to mean Sud­denly Use­less Vehicle.

    You haven’t been right about any­thing Jon.”

    Because you can’t face the fact that the world has started to catch on to the machi­na­tions of your fas­cist hero doesn’t mean I’m wrong. Go goos­es­tep some­place else.

    Jeff– “What were you trained to do…?”

    Kill.

    And what resources are we steal­ing exactly”

    Oil.

    Why didn’t we steal Kuwaits when we were there?”

    Because Kuwait was will­ing to sell it to us and Sad­dam wasn’t. Duh.

    Do you real­ize that the very key­board you’re typ­ing on is plastic”

    Do you real­ize for every 20 miles you drive around in that mon­ster truck you own that one gross less of dis­posi­ble syringes can be made? Plas­tic is vital to mod­ern med­ical sci­ence and you’d rather just go burn the shit. Smart.

    Aren’t you con­tribut­ing to that theft that you speak of?”

    If every­one in the US used as lit­tle petro­leum as I do, we wouldn’t be for­eign oil depen­dant. Don’t crit­i­cize me when I do every­thing I can to avoid wast­ing fuel and you are doing not a damn thing.

    My rea­sons for sup­port­ing the war are quite simple.”

    That whole para­graph is bull­shit. You sup­port war on Iraq because you got fooled by Bush into think­ing Sad­dam was involved in 9/11 and then fur­ther fooled into believ­ing that he was going to nuke us and now you are so far entrenched in it that you just don’t want to admit that you are wrong. And… you hate brown people.

    But again, peo­ple on this blog have such small minds they can’t even com­pre­hend what is really going on in this world.”

    Give your xeno­pho­bia a rest for a while.

    And you hate just as well.”

    I hate the fact that you psy­chotic rad­i­cal con­ser­v­a­tive fanat­i­cal reli­gious fun­da­men­tal­ist extrem­ist hill­billy red­necks are trash­ing my coun­try, my Con­sti­tu­tion, my civil lib­er­ties, my safety, my mil­i­tary, the envi­ron­ment, and so on and so on and so on.

    the last time I checked I wasn’t blow­ing up inno­cent people”

    If you are voic­ing your sup­port for the Petro­leum Wars, then you are killing inno­cent people.

    You sup­port that kind of thing instead of stop­ping it.”

    Those peo­ple will have to stop it for them­selves. You don’t seem to under­stand that US involve­ment dooms this whole sit­u­a­tion to fail­ure. Regard­less, and cold as it seems, that’s out of our juris­dic­tion. You can’t just invade and blow peo­ple and build­ings up because you don’t like what peo­ple do in those nations. When those peo­ple are tired of liv­ing under author­i­tar­ian regimes, they will act to stop it.

    There’s a whole world out there. It’s get­ting smaller everyday.”

    And your solu­tion is to reduce it to rub­ble. Good thinking.

  23. Jeff says:

    I hate the fact that you psy­chotic rad­i­cal con­ser­v­a­tive fanat­i­cal reli­gious fun­da­men­tal­ist extrem­ist hill­billy red­necks are trash­ing my coun­try, my Con­sti­tu­tion, my civil lib­er­ties, my safety, my mil­i­tary, the envi­ron­ment, and so on and so on and so on.

    pretty bold state­ment com­ing from some­one who knows noth­ing about me whatsoever…

    again…small minds. ever heard of the term “Blind Racism” You should look it up sometime.

  24. Jon says:

    pretty bold state­ment com­ing from some­one who knows noth­ing about me whatsoever…”

    After months of read­ing your posts, I know quite a bit.

    What­ever you say cracker.

  25. Charles says:


    WMDs in Iraq for starters.

    He did not lie about WMD Jon. Accord­ing to all for­eign and domes­tic intel­li­gence ser­vices, Sad­dam had not truly given up on his WMD pro­grams as required. No one believed he had. The democ­rats believed he was a threat. The French believed he was a threat. Sad­dam did not destroy his stock­piles under UN inspec­tions as required, and he was caught lying through­out the 90’s about his pro­grams. If ambas­sador Wil­son is to be believed, Sad­dam WAS try­ing to pro­cure ura­nium as late as 1999. In 2002 he was found to be in mate­r­ial breach of dis­ar­ma­ment resolutions.

    The US is not autho­rized to enforce UN res­o­lu­tions with­out secu­rity coun­cil approval.

    You should join Milosovic’s defense team. He ought to argue the same thing about US/EU involve­ment in for­mer Yugoslavia.

    Your logic assumes that every­one is a threat.

    Nice deflec­tion Jon. Where did that come from?

    Iraq took no aggres­sive action against the US.

    Sad­dam was in con­tin­ued mate­r­ial breach of UNSC res­o­lu­tions and the US/coalition went in to guar­an­tee com­pli­ance. Cry all day long.

    Under your logic, the US should wipe out every­one except for the US as they all pos­sess weapons that could con­ceiv­ably be used to attack the US.

    Suu­u­ure ?!? Just block it out Jon. Sad­dam didn’t exist until the US over­threw him in the spring of 03. No his­tory there. Noth­ing to think about. He was inno­cent. A good man in fact. No worse than any­one else.

    Nope. It’s not our con­cern. Those peo­ple will have to fig­ure it out for them­selves and if we hadn’t been stick­ing our noses in Arab affairs, we would have been left out of it.

    So the US (and every other coun­try for that mat­ter) has no inter­ests out­side of its bor­ders? There should be no inter­ven­tions of any kind any­where — EVER. We will let each coun­try, its bru­tal dic­ta­tors, oppressed peo­ple, threat­ened resources, threat­ened neigh­bors, just swing in the wind — good luck world! Let’s just hope for the best.

    I’ll grant you that you are not alone in that belief. But do please fol­low that line of thought through to all of its conclusions.

    Com­par­ing Hus­sein to Hitler is false logic which destroys your whole argument.

    Stop try­ing to sound smart. I never men­tioned Hitler. I was refer­ring to your logic that argues if the out­come is unknown, and the chal­lenges great, you should quit.

    It won’t. Oil will run out regard­less how many Arabs we kill in the Petro­leum Wars. SUV will come to mean Sud­denly Use­less Vehicle.

    Do please make up your mind.

    Because you can’t face the fact that the world has started to catch on to the machi­na­tions of your fas­cist hero doesn’t mean I’m wrong. Go goos­es­tep some­place else.

    Com­par­ing BUSH to Hitler is false logic which destroys your whole argument.

    Machi­na­tions? That’s a big word Jon. Which con­spir­acy are you refer­ring to this time?

  26. Jon says:

    Accord­ing to all for­eign and domes­tic intel­li­gence ser­vices, Sad­dam had not truly given up on his WMD pro­grams as required.”

    Which is why the UN jumped on board to sup­port a war against Sad­dam. Oh… wait. That didn’t hap­pen did it. You must think the whole world is out to get us.

    The democ­rats believed he was a threat.”

    Based on the decep­tion of the Bush administration.

    The French believed he was a threat.”

    Which is why French troops are back­ing up US troops in Iraq. Oh… wait. That didn’t hap­pen. The French must be out to get us!

    Sad­dam did not destroy his stock­piles under UN inspec­tions as required”

    Which is why we dug up mas­sive stock­piles of weapons when we got there. Oh… wait…

    If ambas­sador Wil­son is to be believed, Sad­dam WAS try­ing to pro­cure ura­nium as late as 1999.”

    You’re pretty selec­tive about when you choose to believe people.

    In 2002 he was found to be in mate­r­ial breach of dis­ar­ma­ment resolutions.”

    So when is the inva­sion of Israel sched­uled for?

    You should join Milosovic’s defense team.”

    Now there is a guy who you can com­pare to Hitler and get no argument.

    Nice deflec­tion Jon. Where did that come from?”

    It’s your logic, not mine.

    Sad­dam was in con­tin­ued mate­r­ial breach of UNSC res­o­lu­tions and the US/coalition went in to guar­an­tee com­pli­ance. Cry all day long.”

    Pretty selec­tive about which res­o­lu­tions you think the US should take it upon itself to enforce aren’t you?

    Sad­dam didn’t exist until the US over­threw him in the spring of 03.”

    He’s existed since the CIA trained and armed him. How do you like the blowback?

    So the US (and every other coun­try for that mat­ter) has no inter­ests out­side of its borders?”

    No, I think we are pretty inter­ested in the fate of Iraqi oil.

    He was inno­cent. A good man in fact. No worse than any­one else.”

    Nobody is inno­cent. But you’re talk­ing about killing peo­ple to stop them from killing them­selves. What kind of sense does that make? Is he worse than any­one else? If you are try­ing to jus­tify vio­lence by mea­sur­ing the degree rel­a­tive to other vio­lence, you are wrong-thinking.

    There should be no inter­ven­tions of any kind anywhere”

    There should be inter­ven­tion by a WORLD force to stop wars of aggres­sion like the one the US has per­pe­trated on Iraq.

    We will let each coun­try, its bru­tal dic­ta­tors, oppressed peo­ple, threat­ened resources, threat­ened neigh­bors, just swing in the wind”

    So, you are in favor of US world dom­i­na­tion? That’s is all I can assume from your logic. The cit­i­zens of those nations will need to secure their own free­dom them­selves or they will not value it enough to pro­tect it. You know I’m right about this, but you are being obtuse. The thing I can’t fig­ure out is WHY are you being so obtuse? How does Charles ben­e­fit from war in Iraq? Does he work in the petro­leum indus­try? The automak­ing indus­try? Defense? Mil­i­tary? Repub­li­can party offi­cial? He’s obvi­ously not a phil­an­thropist because his meth­ods are death.

    I’ll grant you that you are not alone in that belief. But do please fol­low that line of thought through to all of its conclusions.”

    I have. You are ignor­ing how the human mind works though. Many things done which seem to be good actu­ally cause neg­a­tive effects. For exam­ple, a study was done in Cal­i­for­nia regard­ing the effect of cur­few on juve­nile crime rates. It was dis­cov­ered that, while cur­fews were in effect, juve­nile crime rates actu­ally increased. The human mind is a strange device. Chil­dren who are severely pun­ished usu­ally become rebel­lious. It seems counter to what you would expect, but that is human nature. Your plan for progress may work. Peo­ple may start being nice to each other at sword­point. Then again, peo­ple may just get more devi­ous and blood­thirsty. All I care about as a tax­pay­ing cit­i­zen is that it doesn’t hap­pen here. It seems cold, but you are going to find the fanat­ics we are deal­ing with are much more tena­cious than you are expect­ing. Look at the Palestinian/Israeli con­flict. The meth­ods being used there can be quite suc­cess­ful. But in order to be so, you must imme­di­ately kill the entirety of your foe or you will have zero suc­cess. On the other hand, if you can find a way to profit from long, drawn out war, then you will find peo­ple who endeavor to do so. I know these con­cepts seem strange to you because you are try­ing to use math­mat­i­cal logic, but you are going to find out that soci­o­log­i­cal phe­nom­ena and math­mat­ics don’t mix.

    Here is a bone for you… if the US and it’s coali­tion had left Iraq after the first 21 days, this mis­sion would have been a com­plete success.

    Stop try­ing to sound smart.”

    I’m rolling my eyes at you. If you want me change tac­tics, then my next method is to sim­ply tell you to fuck off you fas­cist lit­tle bitch. Which do you prefer?

    I never men­tioned Hitler. I was refer­ring to your logic that argues if the out­come is unknown, and the chal­lenges great, you should quit.”

    Using WWII as an exam­ple. No, what you are say­ing is that you should fol­low any tact regard­less of how futile or bru­tal as long and you feel like action is taken and prob­lems are being addressed because 60 years ago a cer­tain action was taken against a cer­tain type of enemy and these two sit­u­a­tions seem sim­i­lar to you. In other words, if your one tool is a ham­mer, every­thing starts to look like nails.

    BTW… the out­come isn’t exactly unknown. You just haven’t taken the time to exam­ine your foe.

    Which con­spir­acy are you refer­ring to this time?”

    How much time do you have?

  27. Jeff says:

    “ever heard of the term “Blind Racism??

    What­ever you say cracker.

    Cracker?

    Are you black racist? That would explain alot…

    you hate red­necks…
    you hate george bush…
    you hate repub­li­cans…
    you hate reli­gion…
    you hate amer­ica…
    you hate any amer­i­can who doesn’t agree with you…

    you love get­ting your news from Al-Jazeera…
    you love blam­ing Amer­ica for your short comings…

    Yep, it all makes sense now…

    There should be inter­ven­tion by a WORLD force to stop wars of aggres­sion like the one the US has per­pe­trated on Iraq.

    LOL!!!! LOL!!! Yes, Let’s call out the Blue Helmets…they’ll save the day!!! LOL!!!! And while we’re at it, we’ll get the French to launch a full ground assault on Mars!!! LOL!!!!!!!!

  28. Jon says:

    Jeff– “Are you a black racist?”

    Nope, I’m a white anti-white suprema­cist, cracker. And I’m guess­ing you are a white racist because you have a small weiner and you’re afraid a black man is going to take your woman. It’s also why you own that 4x4 penile replace­ment that you drive. It’s spooky that I can read you so well isn’t it?

    you hate rednecks”

    I hate ignorance.

    you hate george bush”

    Igno­rance again, but aug­mented by greed.

    you hate republicans”

    Fas­cism this time.

    reli­gion”

    Abuse of the weak-minded due to greed and desire for power.

    Amer­ica”

    This is just your impres­sion because your motto is, “My coun­try, right or wrong.”

    any Amer­i­can who doesn’t agree with you”

    Not true. You are free to dis­agree, but don’t try to cod­ify your beliefs and force them on the rest of us or I will endeavor to expose you. So which part of my ide­ol­ogy don’t you agree with? Are you anti-Bill of Rights? Are you in favor of pil­lag­ing for­eign nations? Are you in favor of caus­ing Armaged­don? Destruc­tion of the envi­ron­ment? A wealthy rul­ing class? What exactly don’t you agree with me on? I’ve backed up what I’ve said with plenty of arti­cles. Haven’t you read them? The cur­rent state of affairs is hard to ignore unless you are just will­fully igno­rant. You think fas­cism is a good thing? What? I don’t get it. You make no sense. Are you even an Amer­i­can? You don’t seem to under­stand the word “lib­erty” at all.

    Let’s call out the Blue Helmets”

    The US obvi­ously can’t be trusted, so I’m hop­ing an inte­grated, multi-national force will be more inclined to con­duct them­selves with honor.

  29. Jeff says:

    Nope, I’m a white anti-white suprema­cist, cracker. And I’m guess­ing you are a white racist because you have a small weiner and you’re afraid a black man is going to take your woman. It’s also why you own that 4×4 penile replace­ment that you drive. It’s spooky that I can read you so well isn’t it?

    wow, you’re a com­plete idiot Jon. I drive a 2004 Honda Pre­lude by the way…

    I hate ignorance.

    ingo­rance = red­neck in your mind…? Aren’t “red­necks” pro­tected by the con­sti­tu­tion of the United States or would you rather have them beheaded?

    Igno­rance again, but aug­mented by greed.

    Like John Kerry and Teresa Heinz…? or Ted Kennedy kind of greed?

    Fas­cism this time.

    unlike “true” Fas­cism, we the peo­ple can vote them out…and do, and will. Why does that con­fuse you?

    Abuse of the weak-minded due to greed and desire for power.

    Again, pro­tected by the United States con­sti­tu­tion. What is it exactly you claim to want to defend?

    no it’s like this…

    My Coun­try, period.

    Quite simple…Freedom with­out hav­ing some­one push their agenda on me. Demo­c­rat, Repub­li­can, Lib­er­tar­ian, etc. All are the same, there is no dif­fer­ence any­more. Each has there own agenda they want oth­ers to con­form to. I will not. As for the Bill of Rights, I prac­tice the free­dom of the 2nd amend­ment every­day. There’s an old say­ing from our found­ing fathers…It goes:

    “Don’t tread on me”

    You obvi­ously don’t under­stand that very well.

  30. Jeff says:

    Jon — And your solu­tion is to reduce it to rub­ble. Good thinking.

    Sorry, mus­lims seem to be doing a pretty damn good job of that…

    Schools burn as Paris riots enter 10th night

    Two schools have been burned down in Paris and hun­dreds of cars set on fire in cities across France in a 10th night of riot­ing in poor sub­ur­ban areas.

    The Inte­rior Min­istry says the schools have been set ablaze in the Paris sub­urb of Essonne, but no one has been hurt in the attack.

    About 68 peo­ple have been arrested after the renewed violence.

    Prime Min­is­ter Dominique de Villepin sum­moned eight key min­is­ters and a top Mus­lim offi­cial to his offices on Sat­ur­day as he sought to chart an end to the violence.

    The vio­lence is seen as the expres­sion of pent-up anger by youths, many Mus­lims of North African and black African ori­gin, at police treat­ment, racism, unem­ploy­ment and their mar­ginal place in French society.

    In Sat­ur­day night’s riot­ing, the Inte­rior Min­istry says 480 cars had been gut­ted across France, with about 190 in the Paris region and 290 in the rest of the country.

    A num­ber of pub­lic and com­mer­cial build­ings have been targeted.

    In Evreux in Nor­mandy, a mall has been set on fire, burn­ing more than 50 vehi­cles while a post office and two schools have also been set alight.

    mean­while… ;-)

    Peace march

    On Sat­ur­day, hun­dreds of peo­ple have marched in Paris to protest against the vio­lence, and appeal for calm.

    Among those tak­ing part in the peace march was Ahmed Brazini.

    We’re tired of every­thing that’s been hap­pen­ing these days,” he said.

    The flames, the smoke, the burn­ing tyres, the stolen cars.

    We’re fed up with all of it, this must come to an end.”

    Ger­ard Gau­dron, the Mayor of the riot-hit sub­urb of Aulnay-sous-Bois, says what is hap­pen­ing is stupid.

    I want to show the whole of France that there are peo­ple who live here who have noth­ing to do with these events and who are tired of the sit­u­a­tion,” he said.

    source…

    Thank god the french know how to han­dle things…

  31. Jeff says:

    French Intifada Nears Grim Mile­stone of 1000 Torched Cars

    AUBERVILLIERS, France — Maraud­ing youths torched nearly 900 vehi­cles, stoned para­medics and burned a nurs­ery school in a ninth night of vio­lence that spread from Paris sub­urbs to towns around France, police said Sat­ur­day. Author­i­ties arrested more than 250 peo­ple overnight — a sweep unprece­dented since the unrest began.

    For the first time, author­i­ties used a heli­copter to chase down youths armed with gaso­line bombs who raced from arson attack to arson attack, national police spokesman Patrick Hamon said.

    The vio­lence, which was con­cen­trated in neigh­bor­hoods with large African and Mus­lim pop­u­la­tions but has since spread, has forced France to address the sim­mer­ing anger of its sub­urbs, where immi­grants and their French-born chil­dren live on the mar­gins of soci­ety.

    source…

    Yep, mus­lims seem to be doing a pretty damn good job of reduc­ing stuff to rubble…

  32. Jon says:

    Jeff– “I drive a 2004 Honda Pre­lude by the way…”

    How do you fit the shot­gun rack on that thing?

    ingo­rance = red­neck in your mind…?”

    Now you’re start­ing to get it.

    Appar­ently nobody is pro­tected by the Con­sti­tu­tion. Bush found out he can just ignore the thing and (so far) get away with it.

    would you rather have them beheaded?”

    I’d pre­fer to yank their cow­boy hats down around their faces and repeat­edly smack them with a wif­fle ball bat.

    Like John Kerry and Teresa Heinz…? or Ted Kennedy kind of greed?”

    Yes, greed like that.

    Right. Pol­icy will cease to be formed to favor cor­po­ra­tions after Bush is gone. I’m some­what doubtful.

    Again, pro­tected by the United States constitution.”

    Sadly, the fun­da­men­tal­ist move­ment today wants to wipe out the estab­lish­ment clause and use the free exer­cise to do it. Since these peo­ple can’t seem to keep their reli­gion out of my gov­ern­ment, we are going to have to seri­ously neuter them some­how. You don’t seem to rec­og­nize the fact that I am not advo­cat­ing and leg­is­la­tion ban­ning reli­gion. That’s the dif­fer­ence between thee and me. Instead, I’ll just have to run around shak­ing peo­ple until they real­ize there is no God.

    My Coun­try, period.”

    Same thing. Wel­come back, Adolf.

    Quite simple…Freedom with­out hav­ing some­one push their agenda on me.”

    Unless those faith-based ini­tia­tives coin­cide with your own agenda right?

    Each has there own agenda they want oth­ers to con­form to. I will not.”

    You already are. How’s that Repug­ni­can party treat­ing you?

    As for the Bill of Rights, I prac­tice the free­dom of the 2nd amend­ment everyday.”

    I fig­ured as much.

    You obvi­ously don’t under­stand that very well.”

    Don’t fool your­self. Both of our backs are repeat­edly criss­crossed with treadmarks.

    Sorry, mus­lims seem to be doing a pretty damn good job of that…”

    Take your blind­ers off. Those Apaches aren’t just for looks you know.

    Thank god the french know how to han­dle things…”

    Get peo­ple hooked on social wel­fare and they will require con­stant maintenance.

    Yep, mus­lims seem to be doing a pretty damn good job of reduc­ing stuff to rubble…”

    Not like it never hap­pens here. Good thing our gov­ern­ment is pre­pared to put down the dis­senters.
    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/mar2000/poli-m14.shtml

  33. Jeff says:

    How do you fit the shot­gun rack on that thing?

    no need for a shot­gun rack…I carry on my side. ;-) but I guess you libs would rather take my 2nd admen­ment rights away. Thanks for defend­ing my rights.

    Same thing. Wel­come back, Adolf.

    yeah right, i’m load­ing up mus­lims in box cars and send­ing them off to be gassed…

    sorry, wrong.…try again…

    I fig­ured as much.

    got some­thing against the 2nd admen­ment…? I fig­ured as much…your hypocrisy is start­ing to shine through…

    Not like it never hap­pens here. Good thing our gov­ern­ment is pre­pared to put down the dis­senters.
    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/mar2000/poli-m14.shtml

    you direct me to a pro-socailist/pro-ACLU site? Shame on you…

    for some rea­son the anti-everything group in the US likes to destroy things when protesting…I have a bet­ter idea, when the pro­tes­tors start­ing get­ting out of hand (destroy­ing things)…snipers on roof tops will start tak­ing them out…yeah, that’s a lot bet­ter than a lit­tle fence.

  34. Jon says:

    Jeff– “I carry on my side.”

    No doubt, chick­en­shit. I have no doubt that your run around run­ning your mouth and you can’t back up your big talk with­out tot­ing firearms. What a weak-assed moth­er­fucker you are. Your mother must be proud.

    i’m load­ing up mus­lims in box cars and send­ing them off to be gassed”

    You prob­a­bly spend your nights dream­ing of it and playin with your­self. Sick fucker.

    got some­thing against the 2nd admenment”

    Only that it gives fag­gots like you the courage to run your mouth.

    you direct me to a pro-socailist/pro-ACLU site?”

    So, you admit you com­pletely ignore one side of the argu­ment? If you want dirt on fas­cists, you go to the com­mu­nists and vice-versa. And dude claims to be a lib­er­tar­ian, but is bag­ging on an orga­ni­za­tion which spends it’s entire effort on pro­tect­ing the Bill of Rights. What a dumb fucker.

    snipers on roof tops will start tak­ing them out…yeah, that’s a lot bet­ter than a lit­tle fence.”

    Yeah… let’s get this shit rolling. I’ll start stock­ing up on jel­ly­gas and you run around with your peashooter.

    Dumb fuck.

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