The perfect controlled demolition.
Take a good look at the picture above because I will tell you what I see.
I see a damaged dome caused by an explosion set very professionally that the two minarets from the both sides weren’t effected by the explosion.
Tell me, Is this work of few terrorists who wants to finish the job as fast as possible?
The one who did this, entered the mosque comfortably carrying explosions, he had all the time to study the construction of the building and find the perfect angles to set the explosions in a way that only the dome will be destroyed.
This is a professional, controlled demolition and the bombs set by demolition experts.
Attwar, the TV Anchor
Now, let’s talk about the death of the three Iraqi journalists.
TV anchor Attwar, age 26 years is a significant young woman born in Samarra, moved to Baghdad just 3–4 years ago, Attwar worked for Al-Jazeera first and then she moved to Al-Arbyia.
I am not writing Attwar’s autobiography here but this has connection to the events, Attwar (I think you are smart enough to know that she is a Sunni) was well-known of her support for the Iraqi cause and blaming the occupation for the mess in Iraq.
One ex-Abu Ghraib prisoner tells this story about Attwar:
When I came out through the gates of Abu-Ghraib there was TV team waiting outside asked me for an interview, I said yes, then came TV anchor Attwar and asked “How do you fell no…. “she couldn’t finish her question because she burst in tears when she saw how do I look like, bare feet, torn clothes….
This is an example of Attwar mentality.
What the media didn’t told on Attwar’s death is this:
Attwar and her other two colleagues found dead but the TV team was four members, bad news four the US but one of the team survived the assassination to tell this:
Attwar being born in Samarra, her relatives and friends are still there, she managed to interview eyewitnesses on the explosion and people live in the area around the mosque.
Notice, they found the TV-team’s bodies later but didn’t found the documentary she made,
Who benefit from killing Atwwar, Sunnis? She is a Sunni. Resistance? She sympathise with the resistance. Shiite riot? Samarra is dominated by Sunnis.
Zalamy Khalilzad weird message.
Sunni Clerical Association of Muslim Scholars, issued a 4 points condemnation letter to the bombing of shrine in Samara, You can see a picture of the letter here (Arabic), I don’t want go translating the whole letter but point 2 in the letter is a very important point.
It says the following:
SCAS are right, Zalamy Khalilzad announcement in public was meant to hit two birds in one stone, first an advertisement to the world that the US wants a united Iraq (for the public consumption only), second and the mean reason is he wanted to remind the Iraq alliances Shiites that they still under the US control.
Worth to notice that all news agancies wrote Khalilzad announcment as: During a rare news conference, Khalilzad.…example
By the way today the so called Al-Qaeda in Iraq condemned the bombing, Baath party condemned the bombing and many fractions of Iraqi resistance condemned it also.
This is how Badrists and Sadrists treat people they don’t like.
This is how the Shia-led Interior Ministry restores order.
Look at this picture. The chaos lil George of Crawford created in Iraq.
An Iraqi journalist, Atwar Bahjat, dragged screaming by Badrists while covering Sammara. She knew her fate.
This is what remained of her.
The picture of Atwar Bahjat, one of many killed in Iraq
They said that she and her crew witnessed the capture of Iranians somewhere near the mosque. Gunmen then took her away and killed her and disposed of tapes.
The sunni ‘freedom fighters’ who have been doing this shit for 3 years and this has led to increased support for shia extremists. You have yourself to thank. George Bush gave you the chance at freedom. Stupid tribal ethnic rivalries are squandering that chance and killing people every day.
I know you and people like you will do your best — as usual — to shift the blame to the US, but it is becoming almost comical. Private danish newspaper publishes scribbled cartoons featuring mohamed, islamic crazies chant ‘death to america.’
Keep blaming everyone else TAI. That’s all you seem capable of. Don’t bother with introspection. Of course the deliberate killing of tens of thousands of shia and attacks on the government and infrastructure could not be responsible for shia getting pissed off. Nope. Of course not. They hardly even noticed!
ladybird,
hypothetically speaking.
“What if it was mehdi militia?”
Then would your reaction be helping or hurting your country?
Externalizing the problem does not bring unity. Not this time. Not unless you want to be unified under an authoritarian shiocracy. So be careful with your blame. If you blame the wrong party then you aree helping the perpertrators achieve their goals.
From “Healing Iraq”:
Another eyewitness from Samarra, who wrote to the Iraqi Rabita website, claims that 2 Iranians were arrested yesterday, and that the Al-Arabiya channel crew had filmed them. The Iranians were released when Solagh
Sorry to spoil your party Charles but there is no such testemony on Iraqirabita website, Iraqis or any Arabic reader can check this out.
So Zeyad is lying? Hmmmm. I will let him know that his sources don’t check out.
Thanks for update…
I see a damaged dome caused by an explosion set very professionally that the two minarets from the both sides weren’t effected by the explosion.
pray tell LB what if anything do you know about explosives? :)
or
So you know explosives LB, professionaly? :)
Rubin, Maybe LadyBird isnt a specialist, but any one can see that some precision was exercised here.
But I digress:
Fri Feb 24, 11:14 AM ET
The bombing of a revered Shiite shrine which sparked a wave of violence in Iraq was the work of specialists, Construction Minister Jassem Mohammed Jaafar said Friday, adding that the placing of the explosives must have taken at least 12 hours.
“According to initial reports, the bombing was technically well conceived and could only have been carried out by specialists,” the minister told Iraqia state television.
Jaafar, who toured the devastated thousand-year-old shrine on Thursday a day after the bombing which brought down its golden dome, said “holes were dug into the mausoleum’s four main pillars and packed with explosives.”
“Then the charges were connected together and linked to another charge placed just under the dome. The wires were then linked to a detonator which was triggered at a distance,” the minister added.
To drill into the pillars would have taken at least four hours per pillar, he also estimated.
Damage to the mausoleum, holding the tombs of the 10th and 11th Shiite Imams, was extensive.
“The dome was completely wrecked and collapsed on the tombs which were covered over by debris. The shrine’s foundations were also affected as 40 percent of the power of the blast was directed inwards,” he added.
“It’s a historic site, a symbol of Iraqi culture and must be treated as such,” he said, adding that he would call on Iraqi officials and on UNESCO to help rebuilt the golden mosque.
Jaafar said he survived a double bomb attack while returning from Samarra when blasts went off in front of his convoy and behind it.
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Still smiling?
Thank you TAI,
I am really not an experts in explosives and I don’t own a satellite dish to watch Al-Iraqia channel but I studied many pictures of the explosions and until now I find it weird that the minarets didn’t effected by the explosion
Rubin, Maybe LadyBird isnt a specialist, but any one can see that some precision was exercised here.
I am really not an experts in explosives and I don’t own a satellite dish to watch Al-Iraqia channel but I studied many pictures of the explosions and until now I find it weird that the minarets didn’t effected by the explosion
So what are you guys saying? Are you saying we should look closely at Iraqi demolition companies to find the perpetrators?
Wouldn’t the fragility of the dome be the most logical explanation? I mean, the think is not solid stone and it wasn’t constructed of steel girders.
Where are Charles the US promices to bring FBI to help inspecting the crime site? After UN headquarters (in Baghdad) and Najaf shrine bombs USA brought them to the crime scene. Not now why? Strange isn’t it. Some eyewitnesses tell that the bombs went off 10 minutes after the Americans left the site. Hmmmm…
I jsut have to tell you guys and girl…That woman who was murdered..she had a sunni father and a shia mother..i myself am a shia but i don’t care about putting people into groups.like sunni and shia..there are moslems and their are terrorists like alqaeda..i am sick and tired of the terrorists who kill innocent people all the tima and i am also sick of the us..and i am sick of the iraqi government..share the power between you iraqis don’t let outside power come and tell ou what to do..like iran and usa..i just hope as an iraqi that my country will soon get better and get rid of the terrorists amd teh us
Since no one here has ever propagated rumour and inciteful propaganda, we will assume that the inuendo was a genuine mistake…
Folks, the only people who benefit from this are either:
1. Shia extremists who can use this as an excuse to make their move to either take power outright, or position themselves better during the formation of the government. Iran may or may not be behind it, but they are allied with extreme shia groups.
2. Sunni extremists/wahabists/AQ groups who can use this to cause more strife and conflict. Government stability and peace are the direct opposite of their goals. They need chaos. Their only hope to regain power is if things totally collapse. Otherwise, they aren’t strong enough.
But that did not stop stupid people from blaming the US. If the Iraqi government wants the FBI, then they can probably ask.
Better yet to get some independent UN inspection team.
“What the media didn’t told on Attwar’s death is this: Attwar and her other two colleagues found dead but the TV team was four members, bad news four the US but one of the team survived the assassination to tell this:
Attwar being born in Samarra, her relatives and friends are still there, she managed to interview eyewitnesses on the explosion and people live in the area around the mosque.
Well, LB, Bahjat might have been killed because she knew too much, or she might have been killed for other reasons too. In any case, you would be incorrect about the media not reporting that one member of the team survived, because it has been in most news reports from the beginning unlike your witnesses to the bombing of the mosque. Certainly you and your puppets are doing your best to spread your propaganda about those witnesses all over the web, but I’m not so sure I would trust the Muslim Scholars Association to tie my shoes.
M and Rubin, I suggest you read the following on what Bahjat was doing in Sammara:
And from AlArabiya:
Can’t read Arabic? No! Come on, yes you do! Wait, … is that why you have no idea what is going on? Okie dokie, some Ingliz for you.
nn
nn
You can find this article at:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/CC07B908-91DA-4A2B-9628-3DA47CCC2421.htm
Bahjat later moved to the edge of the city to continue her interviews before readying her crew to journey back to Kirkuk, north of Sammara, and it was there she was siezed. Her body was dumped outside the city.
Seriously, people come and learn Arabic. We will help you!
M, it’s very disgusting to read your cynical remarks about a journalist who just tried to do her job in a very dangerous area of the country:
Please read this article to understand how a live recording is been transmitted:
Regardless of who is responsible for the bombing, Iraqis and the Muslim world in general should stop and make the realization that they are being manipulated. There will be no winners in Iraq if civil war breaks out.
No matter who bombed the shrine, they had one objective in mind. They were attempting to bring about civil war in Iraq. Anyone who is not doing everything they can to avoid a civil war is playing right into the hand of the perpetrators.
Jon,
I agree. LB and others are playing right into the wishes of the perpetrators. It is well within the domain of “desired results”.
Neither insurgents, government ISF, american military, nor majority of Badr seemed prepared to deal with the aftermath of this heinous act. Some people say that to find the perpetrators of a conspiracy you should look for the group that gains the most. I think it is now clear that only two groups remain in contention. 1) The hard-line coalition of baathi/sunni that does not want the sunni community to join the government. 2) Those who managed to get jafari nominated by one vote but were facing the impossibility of having him approved. Methinks it is probably a subgroup within candidate #2, but I would still not totally eliminate #1.
As events have unfolded it is clear that the sadrists were prepared and responded quickly. Some would say it is a coincidence. But it is rare for a coincidence to be so well orchestrated. The final tipping point came from Iran. AQ usually takes a few days to prepare their videos and make an announcement. Yet the president of Iran somehow knew that it was not AQ in advance of this time frame. It would be catastrophic for Iran if they blamed the US and then AQ claimed responsibility. This means that Iran knows who did it. I think they know who did it because Sadr informed them of his strategy.
TAI,
Am I suppose to be impressed with your learn Arabic crap? I’m not. So save your condescending racist crap for someone else; because I am not buying.
If LB is going to continue to publicly accuse people, then she can be expected to be called on it. In this case she has accused America of killing Bahjat with absolutely no proof. I don’t need to read Arabic to get information about Bahjat; I read several reports including the one Keld posted. By the way did you happen to notice his is in direct opposition to your and LB’s contention that they made it into the city and interviewed people who witnessed the bombing or lived nearby.
Keld,
Grow up you hypocrite. Now you are Miss Manners? Right. Stuff you write turns my stomach every day.
Fact of the matter is, Bahjat understood her job was dangerous; that is a given particularly being a women AND a journalist operating in the Iraq of today. She died doing her job just as many people do all over the world. LB has deliberately made the point that Bahjat was a hometown girl who supported the insurgency. It is sad she had to die, but as long as people like her and others continue to support lawlessness and the continued attacks against Iraqis, the government and the MNF, then they are the ones responsible for prolonging the chaos, death and destruction.
Jon is right; it is time for everyone to stop being manipulated. It is too important for Iraq and Iraqis.
Strategic motive:
Iran does not want a stable Iraq allied to US on its border in general, and especially as things heat up over nuclear program.
Local partner: Sadr. He didn’t even have to be involved in bomb plot, but his bosses told him to be ready. “Ready for what?” He asked. “You will know when it happens.” They said…
Heck, as long as we are doing the conspiracy theory thing, why not choose one that makes sense?
Enough about the seditionists. Carrying on about them only strengthens the very sedition that they wish to spread. There are people outside of Iraq who desire sedition. They have caused enough damage already. What about Iraqi’s? What can they do to end this cancer that is consuming their body? What is the cancer? The cancer is sectarian fighting. It hides behind many faces and it seems to have unlimited disguises — but it is still essentially sectarian fighting. It does no good for people like ladybird to blame mysterious external forces or for poeple like me to scream for sadr’s head on a platter. This only gives the seditionists further reasons and disguises.
Iraq is in ruins because a lot of shia and sunni want to force the other into submission. If they continue along this path Iraq is going to be completely and utterly destroyed. After which, another dictator will emerge. Is that what Iraqis want? Are they willing to risk everything so that their sect can reign supreme over a wasteland?
The shia and sunni are two sides of same coin. Each of them spits at the other but neither one is willing to accept that they must work together in order to climb out of their hell-hole.
There will be no peace until each is willing to accept the other for what they are, as they are. Each of them thinks that they can force the other into submission. But you can not force another to become what you wish. Nor can you force another to trust you with their future. Trying to force the other will only result in another saddam and another inevitable spiral towards war. It is not justice for Iraqis. Whether the new saddam is shia or sunni or kurd or any other sect … it is still not justice.
You can keep fighting or you can lay down your weapons work towards a shared future. In time you will again embrace the differences as a source of strength. The healing can not start until the shia and sunni stop spitting upon each other.
The shia must forgive sunni and baathi of their past sins. The condition for forgiveness is to accept a shared government and to bear no arms against it or anyone who supports it. Upon this condition the shia must stop seeking the death of people for past crimes and they must purge themselves of sectarian death squads.
The sunni must be willing to forgoe their belief in entitlement and they must be willing to pursue their goals within the framework of shared governance. Upon this acceptance they must purge themselves of terrorists and insurgents.
Then there will be peace.
The so called Council for islami revelution ‚Bader and Aldawa party are fucking jok,A “revelution” against who? ‚those thugs would not last 24 hours once the Anglo Saxson occupation army abonden Iraq,they are the real problem without them the American occuption will not last one day in Iraq.Their faith will be like the South lebanes Army.
M, your reply didn’t surprise me and shows who’s the real hypocrite here:
I don’t know anybody who supports the attacks against Iraqis, but I do know that if the US hasn’t attacked and invaded Iraq in the name of freedom and democracy, this chaotic and tragic mess would never had occured. You can’t blame the resistance for trying to defend their country against a foreign aggressor. They are just doing what everybody in Iraq should be doing.
The US government is the one responsible for the destruction of the Golden Mosque — no matter who planted the bombs.
KB,
Who are you trying to fool other than yourself?
Iraqis are the ones responsible for the attacks against Iraqis that we see every day. How can you just block that out? There are also AQ types who receive sanctuary and support from Iraqis.
Every single day Iraqis are deliberately targeting other Iraqis.
Freedom fighters kill policemen and army recruits by the dozen. Usually not in firefights, but rather ambushes where the recruits/soldiers are captured, hand cuffed, and shot at close range. Their bodies then dumped in a ditch. Indiscriminate car bombs are another favorite. Even Iraqi civilians who cooperate with the ‘puppet’ government (that was elected by the vast majority of Iraqis) are targets.
Are the perpetrators martians?
Or Joooooos?
You all have to break out of this absurd denial.
The sunni extremists that have been raising hell for the last 3 years have succeeded in creating support for shia extremists on the opposite side. The latter outnumber the former. If they get pushed over the edge not only do the fringe sunni extremists pay the price, but all Iraqis pay the price.
All of your romantic freedom fighter/insurgent defending his home and hearth is nonsense. Sheer nonsense. If anyone has helped create that impression it is people like you telling him over and over that the crusaders have come to steal ‘his’ oil and rape his daughters. Especially considering that only now in a democratic society his home and hearth might actually become his to defend.
Charles, if Bush et al don’t realize that they are responsible for this hellfire, then they have only themselves to blame the next time America is hit by a terrorist attack. And they shouldn’t expect much sympathy from the rest of the world this time.
Terrorists have been killing innocent people for a long time.
They killed innocent people before Iraq, they will kill innocent people after Iraq.
They kill innocent people all over the world. You can be a muslim, a jew, a hindu, a buddhist, a christian, an atheist, a turtle worshipper, a man, a woman, or a child. It doesn’t matter a god damn bit to them.
They have a lot in common with tyrants.
I know. We are the bad guys now. They are the freedom fighters brandishing the sword of righteousness (puke).
It won’t matter to you until they kill someone you love.
Charles sonds to me like a Pentagon psy-ops guy planted here to spin the blog. His comments on Shia and Sunnis is very revealing since it exposes a desire to have these two groups fight against themselves and take the pressure off the Americans. Notice the only two options he states could have done this. He doesn’t even mention Al QUada. Given Bush’s neo-con agenda” A New American Century,theyhave to move on to Iran, but they don’t want to do that by leaving Iraq t the Iranians to form their own government by themselves after they leave. So the only way to insure that is to take the pressure of the Americans by formenting civil war. The devide and conquer routine. If Shia and Sunni’s are busy killing ech other then they are too busy to attack the US and the less fighter all around the better for the US. It is an act of desperation for the US after their grand plan to establish the friendly government they wanted fell through. They can’t sustain such a large army in Iraq and Invade Iran to so they are going for the scorched earth approach.
I agree with JPen (26 Feb 2006 11:15) — Charles is trying a little too hard to steer people’s minds towards his ideas about last week’s events.
Charles, you’re a moron. The Iraqi freedom fighters are defending themselves from the murderous invaders, your precious coalition of the killing that has slaughtered over 100000 innocent civilians and destroyed the country. It is the traitors and collaborators that are responsible for escalating inter-iraqi tensions. And yes, you and your buddies invaded Iraq to rape and plunder its resources. There’s nothing humanitarian about western aggression and imperialist terror.
Pete,
Excellent analysis!
The Iraqi freedom fighters are killing mostly Iraqis.
Hysterical hyperbole? Please provide a reference that claims the US/coalition has slaughtered 100000 innocent civilians. Don’t give me a link to the DU, give me a link to the actual souce of the data. Or did you just make it up? Did you read this magical report yourself? Or just the move-on headlines?
Fascinating. You must have thought long and hard to come up with that.
Wonderous claims. When does the plundering start? Plundering is good. But I am against rape. We’ll have none of that now.
Sure. Overthrowing dictators and supporting democracy is almost the same as that. You forgot to mention that I’m a ‘capitalist pig’ who exploits the workers of the world.
I give you a C-. Your enthusiasm is acceptable but credibility is reduced when the melodramatic claims are not sourced. Go see komrad Sholkina for your check.
Charles, this is the Bushies in a nutshell: Defeat is victory. Death is life:
This is the policies you claim to support. Open your eyes…
An important question to ask: Whose side are we on?
KB,
The US military is supporting the government. The government is made up from groups who chose to participate in its formation. Since the Kurds and Shia chose to participate, and the Sunnis did not (until recently), why are you surprised that the government is so ‘flavored?’
If the sunnis would throw their weight into the political process, things would be more balanced. Simple math shows that sunni/kurd/secular parties could balance the shia in terms of sheer electoral power.
There is a clear path forward. It has always been there and it was never hidden. The question is, when will the sunnis stop their obstinance? Anyone with common sense can realize that the US would be happy and eager to protect and promote the interests of non extreme shia groups in Iraq.
“There is a clear path forward. It has always been there and it was never hidden.”
And that path has s name: “Project for the New American Century”
I guess the Sunnis have higher ideals than becoming part of a neocon empire.
KB,
Why must you always respond with ideological crap?
Why not use your own head and your own common sense?
How can you dispute that if all parties engaged in the democratic political process that is being established for the first time in Iraq, it wouldn’t be better?
That is what has been on the table from day 1. All of your conspiracy theories aside, this is a reasonable option. Why shouldn’t the majority shia have legitimate political power? why shouldn’t the sunni kurd assyrain turkoman etc. all participate in a political process that establishes a legitimate rule of law and guarantees minority rights?
Yap and howl all day long — post conspiracy links — but those arent answers.
Charles, you are using the same ‘mantra’ again and again. I just don’t buy it. This is not a true democratic process; this is an American controlled process designed to suit their own interests — not the Iraqi’s. Just leave the country and let them find their own way.
KB,
You are incapable of discussing this ‘yourself’ outside of the conspiracy theories you have swallowed.
Why these nebulous generalities? What makes the process ‘untrue’? Are the German/Japanese democracies untrue? Bottom line is there would be NO democratic process at all if it weren’t for US/UK. Is that ‘more’ true?
What are you talking about? Did we limit participation? Did we set some ground rules inconsistant with a legitimate democratic process? Give us some facts. How did the US control the process, and what parts of this control have delegitimized it. Be specific please.
“How did the US control the process, and what parts of this control have delegitimized it.”
Bremer simply hijacked the Iraqi constitution:
Bremer also privatized the most important government-owned enterprises and turned them over to American companies:
This is not democracy. This is colonialism/imperialism.
KB,
Yes yes you have posted links and text excerpts here many times — that is great!
But what did the US actually do to delegitimize the process of selecting a government, elections, etc.
Did we control who can form a political party?
Did we place restrictions on who could participate in elections?
What did we do to limit the political process?
One point you could make is that the US probably didn’t want high level Baathists forming political parties. But quite frankly I don’t know if that is the case. I think the shia dominated government has purged many baathists, but certainly not all of them.
Did the US enact and enforce some law/decree that controlled the political process? If so what was it?
Give me facts not dogma.
Charles, it’s useless to discuss these matters as long as the country is occupied. The US neglects that a majority (82%) of the population want to troops to leave. Furthermore, article 16 in the constitution says: “It is forbidden to have foreign military bases in Iraq.” Just pay for all the damage you have done and leave the country.
KB,
That’s a really intellectual statement. Let me try to translate:
It is useless to discuss anything about Iraq and its future during this critical stage in its history as it teeters between a democratic future and fascism/totalitarianism, because I don’t like the fact that the US is in the country.
Let’s just stick our heads in the sand and pretend it never happened.
Charles, as I’ve said many times: the US is the problem. You are the one sticking your head in the sand.