Roads to Iraq

Hizbollah is NOT a terror group…its a resistance organisation that also does charitable work…BUT its also not overtly islamist..which is why these fatwas are so directed..
The REAL terror group is the Israel Army(formerly IDF)…its handiwork is on display in lebanon and palestine

Jon, in a previous post you spoke about your frustration with the never-ending conflicts in the ME, and I wonder if this post is fueled by the same. I’m sick of the killing as well, but I’m not sure how much weight our complaints carry when millions in the ME are actually living this nightmare.

I don’t see how a ‘put up or shut up’ attitude, with nuclear threats thrown in helps anything. And I’m really surprised at this:

When the terrorist threat extends to America, our government has the authority of the Constitution to use violent measures against our aggressors.

How many times does it have to be said that Iraq didn’t attack us?

Yes, they need to get their shit together. Very easy for us to say. Before we start feeling superior, I might point out that we have had domestic terrorists, and there are any number of other issues we need to clean up. But yes, technically, if the Lebanese had disarmed Hezbollah or kicked them out, if the Palestinians stopped strapping bombs on, if rockets were no longer lobbed across the border from Gaza, peace would break out. Good luck with that.

Meanwhile, we did in fact stir up a hornets nest with the naive believe that flowers would be thrown at our feet. We have only ourselves to blame for the chaos we’ve created.

I would like to point out that I don’t actually think that the Jon we have to endure now is the authentic one, unless he’s had a sharp blow to the head. Look at the comment the real Jon made on the 12th May 2006 on a thread entitled “US Progress in Iraq” on this very blog.
1. Jon Says:
May 12th, 2006 at 5:23 am
HO - “it’s not the Iraqis fault now is it�?
Well, let’s try to remember who created the power vacuum. Oh yeah, it was the US. The rest of the chaos stemmed from that.

13 Responses to “US progress in Iraq…2006�?

brian - “Hizbollah is NOT a terror group”

Yes, it is.

“its a resistance organisation”

You say tomato. I say terrorist organization.

“The REAL terror group is the Israel Army”

Whatever you say, commie.

Jarn - “How many times does it have to be said that Iraq didn’t attack us?”

I know what the hell happened. You do remember that we were attacked, right? And after that attack, did Congress grant Bush the authority to attack a couple nations? Iraq was attacked because it was considered a continuing threat by the guy you elected to the White House. Congress agreed. Presto chango… now we’re spreading freedom in Iraq. It’s not my policy, it’s just how the world works. Never said it was right.

“I might point out that we have had domestic terrorists”

I might point out that those are aberations. Terrorist attacks are a daily occurance in Iraq now. It’s like a racial or national imperative in the ME it seems.

“if the Lebanese had disarmed Hezbollah or kicked them out, if the Palestinians stopped strapping bombs on, if rockets were no longer lobbed across the border from Gaza, peace would break out. Good luck with that.”

Thank you for your support in my struggle to save millions of Arab lives.

“We have only ourselves to blame for the chaos we’ve created.”

There’s enough blame to spread around, but I don’t care to waste the time right now. Things need to fixed rapidly and your nitpicking of my technicals isn’t going to change that.

LB - “This is the last warning; the crap you wrote is full of racists remarks”

I reread my note to make sure. There is nothing racist in it.

Jon:

‘brian - “Hizbollah is NOT a terror group�?

Yes, it is.

“its a resistance organisation�?

You say tomato. I say terrorist organization.

“The REAL terror group is the Israel Army�?

Whatever you say, commie.’

That last comment shows me your one more unthinking anticommunist…As ive said, Hizbollah ius no more a terrorist org than the Viet Cong….the invaders (US in Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan) and Isreal (palestine/Lebanon) are committing acts of terrorism on an appalling scale…well, it appals me, maybe not a zionazi like yourself.

For your info. Israel seem to have started it:

‘Earlier news items are quiet clear as to the events.
Mike Rivero of link is here has
collected a few of these:
link is here

A sample:
‘The Lebanese Shiite Hezbollah movement announced on
Wednesday that its guerrillas have captured two
Israeli soldiers IN southern Lebanon. “Implementing
our promise to free Arab prisoners in Israeli jails,
our strugglers have captured two Israeli soldiers in
southern Lebanon,” a statement by Hezbollah said.

“The two soldiers have already been moved to a safe
place,” it added. The Lebanese police said that the
two soldiers were captured as they “infiltrated” into
the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border.
[Hindustan Times 7/12/06]‘

2. TRANSLATION: According to the Lebanese police
force, the two soldiers were captured in Lebanese
territory, in the area of Aïta Al-Chaab close to the
border, whereas Israeli television indicated that they
had been captured in Israeli territory. [fr.news.yahoo
7/12/06]

Forbes.com had a piece on July 12, the day of the
incident:
‘The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli
soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border IN
southern Lebanon, prompting a swift reaction from
Israel, which sent ground forces into its neighbor to
look for them.

The forces were trying to keep the soldiers’ captors
from moving them deeper into Lebanon, Israeli
government officials said on condition of anonymity.

The Israeli military would not confirm the report.’
link is here
================================

Instead of negotiating, or going to UN, it has even outdone the evil empire in showing its contempt for the lives of arab civilians and interantional law…

Folks,

Maybe Hezbollah are a bunch of santa clauses and good deed doers fighting the good fight (Robin Hood and his Merry Band?), etc.

BUT - and this is the defining ‘BUT’ - they are an armed group acting without the authority of the sovereign government on whose territory they operate.

End of story.

Call them terrorists. Call them militants. Call them whatever you want.

If they had been folded into the Lebanese military, and were acting on behalf of the Lebanese government under their express authority, then the situation would be entirely different.

Whether you like them or not, they are a rogue militia.

Rogue militias cannot be allowed to operate because they destabilize the situation, and more often than not, initiate violence. They are unpredictable, and unaccountable.

Hezbollah is overtly supported by foreign governments and this is a direct attack on Lebanon’s sovereignty.

Look around the world. Consider places where there is violence. The majority of those flashpoints will have a rogue militia group(s) acting without the authority of the sovereign government from whose territory they operate.

Justifying their behavior is simply support for anarchy.

Their is some sort of vague sliding scale of legitimacy that could be applied to these various groups. Some of the parameters would be:

1. Are there peaceful political alternatives that would allow them to pursue their goals?
2. Have they been offered inclusion into the political process?
3. Are their legitimate rights and aspirations being repressed?

Etc.

Based on these criteria, I’d say Hezbollah is closer to a terrorist organization than to Robin Hood do-gooders.

Charles -

BUT - and this is the defining ‘BUT’ - they are an armed group acting without the authority of the sovereign government on whose territory they operate.

Great. Let’s get the US military to mop up the peshmerga, the Badr Brigades, Mehdi Army. They all operate outside of the law and the government, in even more nefarious ways then Hezbo.

Iraqis have been complaining about these militias for three years. But the US allied with them and now is trying to find a way to get rid of them.

So why the heat on Hezbo then?

Double-standards, sorry.

You are espousing your deluded opinions here.

I am merely correcting them and setting you on the straight path.

And I am here precisely to get on your case and every other racist, pro-war, hate-mongering Islamophobic, Xenophobic person.

TAI,

You are deliberately missing the point.

Dealing with internal militias IS the job of the sovereign government and their allies. You are right. The sunni insurgency has greatly empowered the militias by weakening the central government, polarizing the population, and failing to participate in government to balance out the power structures.

You are absolutely right that the Iraqi government now has this great problem to deal with - and it is their responsibility to settle it if they hope for any stabilization and for Iraq to survive. Iraq must impose its sovereignty in terms of its legitimate right to have a monopoly on ‘force.’ This means disarming all militias that are not under their direct authority.

Its a tough problem.

Lebanon is quite similar in many respects, but Hezbollah took it one step further. They are fighting foreign enemies outside the authority of the sovereign government. If the Mehdi army attacked Kuwait, and it was clear to the Kuwaitis that the Mehdi army was established specifically for the purpose of attacking Kuwait, and the underlying ideology of the Mehdi army espoused the violent destruction of Kuwait, and the Iraqi government was unwilling and incapable of confronting the Mehdi army, then Kuwait would be within its rights to bomb the Mehdi army positions, their supporting infrastructure, and go on raids to liquidate them.

It is simple self defence.

Do you see the difference?

“[The] Five-year campaign plan [includes]… a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia and Sudan” (Pentagon official quoted by General Wesley Clark)

According to General Wesley Clark–the Pentagon, by late 2001, was Planning to Attack Lebanon

“Winning Modern Wars” (page 130) General Clark states the following:

“As I went back through the Pentagon in November 2001, one of the senior military staff officers had time for a chat. Yes, we were still on track for going against Iraq, he said. But there was more. This was being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan, he said, and there were a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia and Sudan.

…He said it with reproach–with disbelief, almost–at the breadth of the vision. I moved the conversation away, for this was not something I wanted to hear. And it was not something I wanted to see moving forward, either. …I left the Pentagon that afternoon deeply concerned.”

Of course, this wholly consistent with the US Neocons’ master plan, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses,” published in August 2000 by the Project for the New American Century (PNAC)

And, as PNAC’s website ( link is here ) notes, that the lead author of that plan, Thomas Donnelly, was a top official of Lockheed Martin–a company well acquainted with war and its profit potential.

It’s no surprise that Republicans are starting to talk about withdrawing troops from Iraq; the troops will be needed in Lebanon. And maybe Sudan and Syria?

link is here

Charles, very good analysis … for someone who has no idea what is truly happening in Iraq nor can truly have a tangible experience of it.

You not only miss the point. You have no idea what it is I am saying because you have not lived it.

There can only be one point. Had Israel not invaded Lebanon, would there have been Hezbo?

Had Iraq not been invaded would there be militia cutting the populace down?

Would the country have been on the verge of a civil war had there been no invasion?

Saddam, saddam, saddam wmd, wmd, that’s all the US admin talked about. That’s all you talked about.

But none of you, not one single ounce of you contemplated what would become of the region if Iraq was invaded, occupied and the legitimate government overthrown.

We knew what would happen. We knew that the current situation in Iraq was bound to occur.

But you didn’t listen because 1) you are racist - White Anglo Man know everything, Arab liar know nothing; 2) Imperialistic - we can fix Iraq for you when you can’t 3) Ethnocentric - Iraq is such and such because the Brookings Institute says so. Who cares what the Iraqis have to say.

Despite your protestations, it still remains a FACT you do not speak from first-hand knowledge but that gleaned from other sources.

You are not a part of this culture to understand it. As much as you find that a non sequitor it is still very much true and unfortunately puts you in a position of weakness.

You will never be able to address the issues in the Middle East as a Middle Easterner will.

That’s why this war happened in the first place. That’s why Iraq is disintegrating - thanks to US designs.

You listened to YOUR experts telling you what YOU wanted to hear.

A extremely large portion of those so-called experts and talking heads who were paraded on television in the buildup to the Iraq war may as well have been opining about the moon.

Laughable, but deadly, because it endorsed an illegal and illegitimate war, invasion and occupation of my country.

But, to appear as if what they had to say was concrete, they also paraded a long list of people - most of whom toda are IN the Iraqi government - to tell the world trumped up crap.

So much so, that anything the Iraqi government said was considered an outright lie. But now the former Iraqi government appears to have been in a much better position to rule the country than the long list of so-called Iraqi saviours that every year are paraded through the White House like circus animals to jump through the loop.

Please.

Hezbollah is not dedicated to the destruction of Israel. It was created as a resistance movement for Lebanon.

There is no equivalent to it in Palestine.

Secondly, I am polarizing the population?

Typical of you Charles. Yes, right I polarized the situation. Sorry, it is you, your friends, your allies, your peers, those you associate with and staunchly defend that have done this.

In the first few months after the invasion of Iraq, the Associated Press and Reuters started to divide Iraqi society along sectarian lines.

Every Iraqi mentioned in news wire is classified as Shia or Sunni. This was even before sectarian violence exploded. Question is why?

We all know why.

The Sunnis ignored the political process because from start to finish it was illegitimate, contrived to ensure maximum fraud. The results had already been decided. Just like the Iraqi constitution, most of which was written by US advisors, with sections rewritten by Islamists.

The political process was sped up at an alarming rate because the US wanted to have the appearance that it succeeded. The appearance that there was good news from Iraq.

And so, like rats following Bush the pied piper of perjury, you all wave the banner of elections in Iraq as it that is the only thing that counts.

Ignorance and arrogance.

Charles, you and your racist horde really do not read anything we write here do you?

I have corrected you dozens of times here and yet you come back with the same nonsensical crap only you and your neocons believe.

No one else believes that crap.

And please, you a dishonorable person who employs lies and misinterpretations, racism and Xenophobia cannot even begin to fathom the meaning of the word honor and its implications.

Ask the Iraqis Charles. They know it and that’s what counts. Not the mindless drivel of racist cowards like you.

You won’t even dare set foot in the middle east.

If you talk the talk, evolve some and walk the walk.

You think the racism bit is getting old?

Check this out:

That is a good thing. Look at what a f-d up region you have created.

Charles, the British said that about India. And Africa. The conquistadors said that about the Aztecs and the Incas. Your ancestors said that about the indigenous populations of North America.

The australians said that about the Aboriginal tribes of that continent.

Everyone else is wrong. You are right. That is racist, ethnocentric and xenophobic.

The best thing you can do is learn to keep quiet because you continuously implicate yourself. Over and over and over.

So you invaded Iraq because of Saddam? Or WMD? Hmmm … Saddam was not a threat to you at all.

According to you the lowly arabs can only be ruled by a brutal dictator who uses murder and terror to retain order and control.

Come now, didn’t your parents teach you it is a sin to lie? Tsk, tsk. Show me where I said that. Put up or shut up, Charles.

I mentioned the previous government in a comparative sense. Come on didnt you see the word better? Which means it was compared to something?

Is your IQ 141 like Jon’s?

I am not afraid to admit anything. I was against Saddam’s regime in the 1990s. But you have made a hero out of him. The first time was by punishing innocent Iraqis with 13 years of sanctions which you knew would not dent him in the least bit.

Your sanctions killed off any dissent, killed off the middle class and the Iraqi intelligentsia which could have moved against Saddam eventually.

Second, you made him a hero by destroying Iraq, proving everything he said and making people long for the stability in Iraq during his reign.

Says a lot when Saddam is seen as a better alternative to the Americans.

Charles, you simply cannot win. I know it is your job to come here and sabotage LB’s blog because you are afraid the world will read and believe what she says, but don’t you hate being repeatedly shown you are wrong all the time?

You got resilience, I will give you that. Only someone with resilience can lie persistently, resort to racism, and take a beating by others who know better than him.

Repeat. The US created ethnic tensions in Iraq - whether by flaw or design. It is hard to say THIS is not the plan they had all along.

Come to the Mideast Charles. Only then will you have earned the right to speak about things you know next to nothing about now.

Whether you will admit it or not, you propose that Iraqis can only be ruled by a dictator. The US removed this dictator, and we are therefore to blame because society collapsed into ruthless factions.

Say what? 1) I never said that nor do I support it; 2) you are blamed because you did not listen to countless Iraqis who told you the right way to do it, the right way to build grassroots support for democracy.

For God’s sake, the current constitution is far more repressive than the last one. You call that progress?

I will stick to the “blame America” mantra because no one told America to shove its nose up another’s rear end. Clearly where it does not belong.

Charles, your very presence here is insulting because it aims to impede the good work LB is doing. She knows it. I know it. And all the other Iraqis know it. There are a couple of your racists on every Iraqi blog which does not conform to the neocon agenda you are trying to espouse here and elsewhere.

Again, your opinion is worth guano. You aren’t Iraqi, you will not rebuild Iraqi, you do not bury your Iraqi kin and you do not even speak our language, eat our foods, celebrate our traditions, or carry the same core value system as us.

At the end of it all, simply worthless.

So, I come here to make sure that everyone else sees you are worthless.

See if you knew anything at all about Iraq you would have mentioned Iran at least once in your brave, yet misled attempt to appear as if you grasp the situation.

I cannot call you any name which would do justice to the hatred you have for Arabs and Muslims. And perhaps Hispanics and Asians as well.

The media is full of stories of Iraqis picking up guns to kill the mongrel invading criminal US Army after they have lost family members. I do not think Saddam figures into this.

When someone kills your children, Charles. Or the children and wives of your very close neighbors whom you have grown up with.

Or destroys a house you have spent years building with your sweat and blood. And keeps doing it for three years. And then tells you it is YOUR fault. That he brought you democracy and you should swallow his boot.

How would you react?

Did Saddam bomb his own water filtration plants in 1991?

Did Saddam US DU in armaments in Iraq?

Please, you will not convince anyone but your ego.

Iraqis are killing each other because this is a grand design set for Iraq. Iraq is the battleground for Iran, Israel and the US to fight over the Middle East.

The invasion of Iraq is the single most shameful act the US has ever done. Future historians will write that.

You say anyone working against popular sovereignty is moving Iraq closer to disintegration.

That is Badr. That is SCIRI. That is Da`wa. They are allies, minions, and proteges of Iran.

You refuse to hear this because it is a testimony to your failure.

But it is the truth. As Iraqis know it.

You joke and mock our pain by talking about falafel stands. Is that the only type of Middle Eastern foods your racist mind can grasp?

Pathetic. And truly feeble. Grow some before you try and appear amusing.

No, you do not know Iraq because you do not want to know Iraq. You want to know only what conforms to what your bosses have told you. What the Brookings Institute and AIPAC and PNAC and the White House dish out.

Why don’t you stand up, tall and think for yourself? Why don’t you start from the point of absolute ignorance and listen to what Iraqis and Middle Easterners tell you and work your way up rather than assuming you know more than we do?

Try it.

Tsk, tsk. I submit to everyone here how Charles cannot bring himself to condemn those who killed the girl in the picture. Those who maimed her.

I wonder what her last thoughts were.

Ever the hypocrite, Charles. And now out and out coward. Have some backbone, stand up for humanity, not your political whims which you get paid for.

I ask again, what would you do to someone who barges into your home and kills your children.

Apparently, you would give them some neocon bs.

I pity your children and loved ones. No brawn and now no muscle. Hire a bodyguard to protect your family while you continue to stand on your soapbox giving us the spiel only very few continue to believe.

Absolutely not. This girl is Palestinian. That is number one.

You are blaming those who start conflicts. A child does not understand that.

A child is a child. What killed the child?

Israeli fire. You still have not condemned that.

Are your Israeli masters looking over your shoulders as you type?

You sound like every cowardly US senator who tremble mid-sentence to clearly state how they don’t blame Israel for anything.

Yesterday, they would have torn Annan to shreds for suggesting the UN compound was targeted purposefully.

You said: “I condemn them to hell 100 times over. I hope Israel destroys every last one of them and that civilian casualties are kept to a minimum.”

That is basically saying you condone the killing of this girl because Israel did it.

Just like the rape of Abeer. Just like all the women and children in Lebanon.

It is their fault not the person pulling the trigger.

Your racism is incredible. You can’t even defend it without appearing even more racist.

Condemn the Israelis who killed this girl just as we condemn the Palestinians who kill children as well.

We have the moral courage to condemn all who kill children. ALL!

You have no courage. Racists are just like playground bullies - stand up to them and they are nothing more than cowering big mouths.

Charles, I welcome more of your answers, because your racism cannot escape you. It is in every letter and every word you write.

Every breath you take.

Which is why if you had the chance you would rape LB, shoot her twice and burn her corpse to hide her crime. You and the criminals in the US military destroying Iraq are one and the same.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh so you never even looked at the picture of the girl?

Listen Charles, am sure you would attack LB in an instance. She represents the truth you can’t stomach. So rather than look inward you project outward.

It is easier for you to attack her then to redeem yourself.

Except we are not talking about Spain or Argentina.

We are talking about Israel. And you cannot criticize Israel.

You have still not condemned the killing of that girl in the picture. But I have another test for you.

Link doesn’t work. But it doesn’t matter. LB has posted dozens of charred and smashed dead bodies on this site.

The tragedy of these deaths is not because they were killed by Israel, but rather that they died in a conflict that is totally unnecessary.

If the ‘palestinians’ spent 1/10 as much time worrying about their children as they do supporting terror groups fighting for a myth - none of this would have ever happened.

Listen Charles, am sure you would attack LB in an instance. She represents the truth you can’t stomach.

Sure - the ‘truth.’

Like Maliki going to the US expressly to request that coalition troops leave…

And Israel using wmd on Lebanon…

This site is 99% deliberate lies intended to mislead very gullible people. I have a feeling that LB does this unintentionally. She lacks the analytical ability to question this nonsense.

Believe me TAI, I can understand why people who have been bred and raised on this garbage are ready to blow themselves up. But that doesn’t make these lies or myths any more ‘true.’

violations of Lebanese sovereignty

Except for the fact that Lebanon unilaterally recused itself from exercising sovereignty in southern Lebanon.

Its not surprising that Israel tried to maintain a close watch on on an armed rogue militia that had vowed for its destruction, righteously proclaimed to the world that it had 15,000 rockets ready to rain down on Israel, and was operating unhindered right on its border.

Not to do monitor them closely would be an inexcusable failure to defend its own citizens.

Apparently they did not monitor closely enough…

It’s the Lebanese responsibility to monitor what’s going on in the Lebanon.

Yeah - they chose not to.

If they don’t fulfil any obligations then it’s a matter for the United Nations.

Yeah - but they chose not to do anything about it.

You have seen the pictures of UN outposts flying both UN and Hezbo flags - right?

Relative calm…

Until Hezbo attacked…