Roads to Iraq

“Al Qa’ida Fear” - swallow it

Alqaida

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Manufacture a new truth. Create your own expert(s), group(s), author(s), leader(s) or influence existing ones willing to forge new ground via scientific, investigative, or social research or testimony which concludes favorably. In this way, if you must actually address issues, you can do so authoritatively.

Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as “kooks?, “right-wing?, “liberal?, “left-wing?, “terrorists?, “conspiracy buffs?, “radicals?, “militia?, “racists?, “religious fanatics?, “sexual deviates?, and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

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36 Comments, Comment or Ping

  1. Charles

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  2. Hey Charles, its out in the open now, huh?

    Your Islamophobic, Xenophobic White Supremacist junk.

    Good for ya! I am glad you mustered the courage to show us you really have no courage.

    Just spew anti-Islamic musings.

    Bravo. What else? You are just proving our points over and over.

  3. Robert Frost

    LOL Charles!!

  4. Charles

    Just spew anti-Islamic musings.

    Racist blablabla. Don’t speak my language blablabla.

    Hey - If LB is allowed to post such garbage, why can’t I?

    Where’s you sense of humor man?

    I thought a couple were pretty good…

    Oh yes - i’ll admit it - this whole terrorism thing is a myth, and the ‘Palestinians’ are a true ‘nation’ and unique ethnicity and culture and Israel has offended the ‘arab nation’ by it existence. We all know that before IUsrael existed, there was a lovely country called Palestine. All arabs rally together to make sure that the one true historically revered and famous Palestine once again takes its true place among the nations of man!

    75% of the Palestine mandate isn’t enough. We want ALL of it!

    Let’s go kill some jews and go talk about how racist Charles is…

  5. Now, Charles, in addition to being racist, you are getting desperate … you sound infantile to say the least.

  6. Charles

    Excellent retort TAI!

    Right on cue.

  7. Charles

    Hi Frost,

    I also saw that video. The context is not 100% clear - but it is absolutely clear that armed militants escaped in a clearly marked UN ambulance.

    ‘Our friends in Blue’

  8. Here is a better one.

    These are Charles’ friends. Keep all this in mind the next time you hear of some grandiose holier-than-thou concept of US justice.

    Some say the truth will set you free. In this case, it is your captor.

    Sergeant Tells of Plot to Kill Iraqi Detainees
    By ROBERT F. WORTH — link is here
    For more than a month after the killings, Sgt. Lemuel Lemus stuck to his story.

    “Proper escalation of force was used,? he told an investigator, describing how members of his unit shot and killed three Iraqi prisoners who had lashed out at their captors and tried to escape after a raid northwest of Baghdad on May 9.

    Then, on June 15, Sergeant Lemus offered a new and much darker account.

    In a lengthy sworn statement, he said he had witnessed a deliberate plot by his fellow soldiers to kill the three handcuffed Iraqis and a cover-up in which one soldier cut another to bolster their story. The squad leader threatened to kill anyone who talked. Later, one guilt-stricken soldier complained of nightmares and “couldn’t stop talking? about what happened, Sergeant Lemus said.

    As with similar cases being investigated in Iraq, Sergeant Lemus’s narrative has raised questions about the rules under which American troops operate and the possible culpability of commanders. Four soldiers have been charged with premeditated murder in the case. Lawyers for two of them, who dispute Sergeant Lemus’s account, say the soldiers were given an order by a decorated colonel on the day in question to “kill all military-age men? they encountered.

    Many questions remain about the case, which is scheduled for an Article 32 hearing on Tuesday in Iraq. But whatever the truth about that day, Sergeant Lemus’s sworn statement — which was obtained by The New York Times — provides an extraordinary window into the pressures American soldiers face in Iraq, where wartime chaos and the imperative of loyalty often complicate questions of right and wrong.

    When investigators asked why he did not try to stop the other soldiers from carrying out the killings, Sergeant Lemus — who has not been charged in the case — said simply that he was afraid of being called a coward. He stayed quiet, he said, because of “peer pressure, and I have to be loyal to the squad.?

    The mission that led to the killings started at dawn on May 9, when soldiers with the Third Brigade Combat Team of the 101st Airborne Division landed in a remote area near a former chemical plant not far from Samarra, according to legal documents and lawyers for the accused soldiers. It was the site of a suspected insurgent training camp and was considered extremely dangerous.

    Just before leaving, the soldiers had been given an order to “kill all military-age men? at the site by a colonel and a captain, said Paul Bergrin and Michael Waddington, the lawyers who are disputing Sergeant Lemus’s account. Military officials in Baghdad have declined to comment on whether such an order, which would have been a violation of the law of war, might have been given.

    The colonel, Michael Steele, is the brigade commander. He led the 1993 mission in Somalia made famous by the book and movie “Black Hawk Down.?

    The two lawyers say Colonel Steele has indicated that he will not testify at the Article 32 hearing — the military equivalent of a grand jury hearing — or answer any questions about the case. Calls and e-mail messages to a civilian lawyer said to be representing Colonel Steele were not returned.

    It is very rare for any commanding officer to refuse to testify at any stage of a court-martial proceeding, said Gary D. Solis, a former military judge and prosecutor who teaches the law of war at Georgetown University.

    During the raid, the soldiers discovered three Iraqi men hiding in a house, who were using women and children to shield themselves, Sergeant Lemus said in his statement. The soldiers separated out the men, blindfolded them and bound their hands with plastic “zip ties,? restraints that are not as strong as the plastic flex cuffs often used in Iraq.

    Then, Sergeant Lemus told investigators, his squad leader, Staff Sgt. Raymond L. Girouard, was told by another sergeant over the radio, “The detainees should have been killed.?

    The man accused of making that remark, First Sgt. Eric J. Geressy, has denied it. In his own sworn statement, he told an investigator that during the radio call, “I was wondering why they did not kill the enemy during contact.? But he added, “At no point did I ever try to put any idea into those soldiers’ heads to execute or do any harm to the detainees.?

    Sergeant Lemus gave investigators the following account of what happened next: About 10 minutes later, the squad leader gathered Sergeant Lemus and three other soldiers in a house nearby, telling them to “bring it in close? so he could talk quietly to them. Sergeant Girouard spoke in a “low-toned voice? and “talked with his hands,? making clear he was going to kill the three Iraqis.

    “I didn’t like the idea, so I walked toward the door,? Sergeant Lemus said in his statement. “He looked around at everyone and asked if anyone else had an issue or a problem.? No one spoke.

    Soon afterward, Sergeant Lemus recounted, he was standing near the landing zone when he heard shouts and bursts of gunfire. He saw the detainees running and then falling to the ground. He walked back to the scene and asked Sergeant Girouard what happened.

    “But he couldn’t answer,? Sergeant Lemus said. “He just looked at the bodies and had this frozen look on his face. I asked him where my guys were, and he stuttered that they were in the building,? getting first aid.

    Sergeant Girouard has been charged with premeditated murder, a capital offense, as have three other soldiers: Specialist William B. Hunsaker, Pfc. Corey R. Clagett and Specialist Juston R. Graber. Private Clagett and Specialist Hunsaker are accused of actually shooting the prisoners.

    Mr. Bergrin, the lawyer who represents Private Clagett, and Mr. Waddington, who represents Specialist Hunsaker, dispute Sergeant Lemus’s account. They say the prisoners broke free as two soldiers were fixing the zip ties, which were coming loose. They say the prisoners stabbed Specialist Hunsaker and punched Private Clagett before trying to flee.

    But in his statement, Sergeant Lemus said he heard from the accused soldiers that it was Sergeant Girouard who cut Specialist Hunsaker in an effort to make the stabbing story sound plausible. He believed it, Sergeant Lemus said, because “they both have Ranger school backgrounds and they are pretty close friends,? and he added, “They would always talk about the French Foreign Legion and renegade mercenaries running around from country to country.?

    Three days later, Private Clagett “told me he couldn’t stop thinking about it,? Sergeant Lemus recalled. The private asked how Sergeant Lemus had responded to seeing dead bodies and shooting the enemy during his time in Iraq.

    “I told him it was all right that he felt like that,? Sergeant Lemus said. “He was really stressed because when he slept the few hours he did, he dreamed about it over and over.?

    Two initial investigations of the killings by commanders found no wrongdoing. It is not clear who eventually came forward to tell commanders that there was another version of what happened on May 9.

    At one point, Sergeant Lemus said in his statement, Sergeant Girouard gathered the men who had been present before the killing and told them “to be loyal and not to go bragging or spreading rumors? about what had happened. Sergeant Girouard added that “if he found out who told anything about it he would find that person after he got out of jail and kill him or her.?

    Sergeant Lemus said he laughed off the threat at the time. But there may have been other threats. In addition to murder, the four accused soldiers are charged with threatening to kill Pfc. Bradley L. Mason, one of the men in the squad, if he told what he knew about the shootings.

    And this is one of thousands of stories ….

    Remember Haditha. Remember the rape of Abeer.

  9. Can someone please, please kill Ayman Al-Zawahiri and his pal Osama bin Laden.

    Please?

    Why have these two been allowed to survive …

    Ah…

  10. Pictures and files will continue to emerge.

    Occupations always fail. In one day, or a 1000 years. Occuaptions ultimately fail.

    So does racism and bigotry, Xenophobia.

    link is here More well wished from Israel to the children of Lebanon

  11. President George Bush.

    Representative of the American people.

    A Sun repoter asks what is your message to Iran and Syria?

    Bush: My message is to give up their nuclear weapon. And their nuclear weapon ambitions.

    Er, George, Iran doesn’t have a nuclear weapon, remember? So where did you pick that up from?

    Hmmm …

    Watch him in a few years deny ever saying that. Just like Iraq and Al-Qaida. Iraq and 911.

    Later, he said “We got a great weapon on our side, and its called Freedom and Liberty.”

    Er … freedom and liberty are weapons? What a sad way to look at freedom and liberty.

    So, here’s the thing, right. Every time you hear the words freedom and liberty in a Bush speech, expect an invasion, a pre-emptive war, an occupation, etc.

    If I were to sit and criticize the press conference today, I would need a volume …

    Absolutely ridiculous.

  12. Charles

    What a sad way to look at freedom and liberty.

    Um, I thought that was the whole idea behind progressive peace movements, etc.

    Don’t fight guns with guns - rather put daisies down the barrels.

    The best ‘weapon’ against totalitarian forces IS freedom and liberty.

    Or do you prefer bullets and bombs?

    The latter I see as a short term tactic to be used when necessary. Butthis tactic should always serve the above strategy.

    Make up your mind.

    It is easy to make fun of Bush I admit. But you chose a pretty dumb example.

  13. Michael

    Bush: My message is to give up their nuclear weapon. And their nuclear weapon ambitions.

    Er, George, Iran doesn’t have a nuclear weapon, remember? So where did you pick that up from?

    Hey if Bush says that, it must be true, ask Charles he still believes everything Bush said about Iraq.
    Bush knows of course if he spouts this rubbish 60% of Americans automatically believe it’s correct. It’s a maniac running an asylum.

  14. Charles

    Nice ‘illuminating’ link Frost.

    I’m sure perroquet, LB, and TAI have a good explanation though…

    Something to do with racism.

  15. Robert Frost

    TAI

    Occupations always fail. In one day, or a 1000 years. Occuaptions ultimately fail.

    TAI were you refering to the first men who walked our earth, or the first EUs the “Cro-Magnon peoples”, or was it the Neanderathals, ahh.. the Incas, how ’bout the curly toed Persians, or the Romans, or the pre-Saudi Bedouins, heh the Normans were the first Frogs right, didn’t the Caliphs do a little loose squatting around, or were you referring to the all the the Sioux Injun tribes TAI?

    So does racism and bigotry, Xenophobia.

    I guessum thats why you alway throwith the first stone TAI, ’cause you be purified an all holy an such.

    M’kay TAI you finally convinced me it’s all Mr. ChimpyBushHitler’s fault, or Halliburtons, or the “neo cons”, or evil Dick Cheney, or wal-mart, or carbon gas, or the fetus in the pregnant woman’s uterus, anyone.. anything but the Ummah terrorists..anything..plz

    link is here

  16. Robert Frost

    ONE UMMAH UBERALIS

    i think I’ll rite a poem…someday

  17. Michael

    Americans generally have no sense of history or interest in culture, particularly the US Army which is the main is comprised of social misfits and criminals. Unfortunately the damage these barbarians are causing in Iraq can never be repaired , it is being lost forever.
    link is here

    US troops bulldoze 1,000-year old historic district in al-Qa’im, turn it into soccer field.
    Iraqi Resistance Report
    Translated and/or compiled by Muhammad Abu Nasr, member, editorial board, the Free Arab Voice.

    July 27, 2006

    Al-Anbar Province.

    Al-Qa’im.

    US troops bulldoze 1,000-year old historic district in al-Qa’im, turn it into soccer field.

    In a dispatch posted at 2:55pm Makkah time Thursday afternoon, Mafkarat al-Islam reported that US occupation forces had demolished a thousand-year old historic district dating back to the First Abbasi Period (762-833 C.E.) in the city of al-Qa’im near the Iraq-Syria border, turning it into a soccer field.

    The Baghdad correspondent for Mafkarat al-Islam reported an announcement issued by the Department of Antiquities and signed by ‘Abd al-Karim Falih, the department’s director, on Thursday as saying that the Americans had destroyed a historic district dating from the Abbasi period, completely leveling it with bulldozers and other equipment.

    The Antiquities Department announcement said that the Americans bulldozed the area into a soccer field despite the fact that it was fenced off with signs posted warning against going inside because it was a Historic Islamic Heritage District.

    The statement denounced the behavior of the Americans saying that the district told the story of the Abbasi era, a time of great flowering of Arab-Islamic culture.

    Mafkarat al-Islam noted that the US forces have destroyed seven historical sites dating back to the Abbasi era and even further back to the earliest Islamic period. One of those was the Abbasi Caliph’s palace in as-Saqlawiyah, another the historic area 30km west of al-Fallujah in which the Battle of Dhat al-’Uyun was fought by the early Muslim warriors under Khalid ibn al-Walid who liberated the country from the Persian Empire. American forces also destroyed the ‘Anah Citadel and the Hit Citadel, as well as other centuries-old Islamic cites.

  18. Michael

    link is here

    The “hiding among civilians” myth
    Israel claims it’s justified in bombing civilians because Hezbollah mingles with them. In fact, the militant group doesn’t trust its civilians and stays as far away from them as possible.

    Throughout this now 16-day-old war, Israeli planes high above civilian areas make decisions on what to bomb. They send huge bombs capable of killing things for hundreds of meters around those targets to destroy them, and then blame the inevitable civilian deaths — the Lebanese government says 600 civilians have been killed so far — on “terrorists” who callously use the civilian infrastructure for protection.

    But this claim is almost always false. My own reporting and that of other journalists reveals that in fact Hezbollah fighters — as opposed to the much more numerous Hezbollah political members, and the vastly more numerous Hezbollah sympathizers — avoid civilians like the plague. Much smarter and better trained than the PLO and Hamas fighters, they know that if they mingle with civilians, they will sooner or later be betrayed by collaborators — as so many Palestinian militants have been.

  19. Robert Frost

    TAI: Down with George Bush, Down with all Zionistas..Down with neo-cons..Down with Americans… Down with rascist USA..viva la resistance..

    link is here

    title: ROP

    Udo allah snackbars every Day

    Udo allah snackbars down by the Bay

    Udo allah snackbars cause you’re Gay

    Udo allah snackbars So how many kaffirs did you chop today

    Robert Frost

  20. Michael

    Sergeant Tells of Plot to Kill Iraqi Detainees

    July 28, 2006

    By ROBERT F. WORTH
    For more than a month after the killings, Sgt. Lemuel Lemus stuck to his story.

    “Proper escalation of force was used,? he told an investigator, describing how members of his unit shot and killed three Iraqi prisoners who had lashed out at their captors and tried to escape after a raid northwest of Baghdad on May 9.

    Then, on June 15, Sergeant Lemus offered a new and much darker account.

    In a lengthy sworn statement, he said he had witnessed a deliberate plot by his fellow soldiers to kill the three handcuffed Iraqis and a cover-up in which one soldier cut another to bolster their story. The squad leader threatened to kill anyone who talked. Later, one guilt-stricken soldier complained of nightmares and “couldn’t stop talking? about what happened, Sergeant Lemus said.

    As with similar cases being investigated in Iraq, Sergeant Lemus’s narrative has raised questions about the rules under which American troops operate and the possible culpability of commanders. Four soldiers have been charged with premeditated murder in the case. Lawyers for two of them, who dispute Sergeant Lemus’s account, say the soldiers were given an order by a decorated colonel on the day in question to “kill all military-age men? they encountered.

    Many questions remain about the case, which is scheduled for an Article 32 hearing on Tuesday in Iraq. But whatever the truth about that day, Sergeant Lemus’s sworn statement — which was obtained by The New York Times — provides an extraordinary window into the pressures American soldiers face in Iraq, where wartime chaos and the imperative of loyalty often complicate questions of right and wrong.

    When investigators asked why he did not try to stop the other soldiers from carrying out the killings, Sergeant Lemus — who has not been charged in the case — said simply that he was afraid of being called a coward. He stayed quiet, he said, because of “peer pressure, and I have to be loyal to the squad.?

    The mission that led to the killings started at dawn on May 9, when soldiers with the Third Brigade Combat Team of the 101st Airborne Division landed in a remote area near a former chemical plant not far from Samarra, according to legal documents and lawyers for the accused soldiers. It was the site of a suspected insurgent training camp and was considered extremely dangerous.

    Just before leaving, the soldiers had been given an order to “kill all military-age men? at the site by a colonel and a captain, said Paul Bergrin and Michael Waddington, the lawyers who are disputing Sergeant Lemus’s account. Military officials in Baghdad have declined to comment on whether such an order, which would have been a violation of the law of war, might have been given.

    The colonel, Michael Steele, is the brigade commander. He led the 1993 mission in Somalia made famous by the book and movie “Black Hawk Down.?

    The two lawyers say Colonel Steele has indicated that he will not testify at the Article 32 hearing — the military equivalent of a grand jury hearing — or answer any questions about the case. Calls and e-mail messages to a civilian lawyer said to be representing Colonel Steele were not returned.

    It is very rare for any commanding officer to refuse to testify at any stage of a court-martial proceeding, said Gary D. Solis, a former military judge and prosecutor who teaches the law of war at Georgetown University.

    During the raid, the soldiers discovered three Iraqi men hiding in a house, who were using women and children to shield themselves, Sergeant Lemus said in his statement. The soldiers separated out the men, blindfolded them and bound their hands with plastic “zip ties,? restraints that are not as strong as the plastic flex cuffs often used in Iraq.

    Then, Sergeant Lemus told investigators, his squad leader, Staff Sgt. Raymond L. Girouard, was told by another sergeant over the radio, “The detainees should have been killed.?

    The man accused of making that remark, First Sgt. Eric J. Geressy, has denied it. In his own sworn statement, he told an investigator that during the radio call, “I was wondering why they did not kill the enemy during contact.? But he added, “At no point did I ever try to put any idea into those soldiers’ heads to execute or do any harm to the detainees.?

    Sergeant Lemus gave investigators the following account of what happened next: About 10 minutes later, the squad leader gathered Sergeant Lemus and three other soldiers in a house nearby, telling them to “bring it in close? so he could talk quietly to them. Sergeant Girouard spoke in a “low-toned voice? and “talked with his hands,? making clear he was going to kill the three Iraqis.
    “I didn’t like the idea, so I walked toward the door,? Sergeant Lemus said in his statement. “He looked around at everyone and asked if anyone else had an issue or a problem.? No one spoke.

    Soon afterward, Sergeant Lemus recounted, he was standing near the landing zone when he heard shouts and bursts of gunfire. He saw the detainees running and then falling to the ground. He walked back to the scene and asked Sergeant Girouard what happened.

    “But he couldn’t answer,? Sergeant Lemus said. “He just looked at the bodies and had this frozen look on his face. I asked him where my guys were, and he stuttered that they were in the building,? getting first aid.

    Sergeant Girouard has been charged with premeditated murder, a capital offense, as have three other soldiers: Specialist William B. Hunsaker, Pfc. Corey R. Clagett and Specialist Juston R. Graber. Private Clagett and Specialist Hunsaker are accused of actually shooting the prisoners.

    Mr. Bergrin, the lawyer who represents Private Clagett, and Mr. Waddington, who represents Specialist Hunsaker, dispute Sergeant Lemus’s account. They say the prisoners broke free as two soldiers were fixing the zip ties, which were coming loose. They say the prisoners stabbed Specialist Hunsaker and punched Private Clagett before trying to flee.

    But in his statement, Sergeant Lemus said he heard from the accused soldiers that it was Sergeant Girouard who cut Specialist Hunsaker in an effort to make the stabbing story sound plausible. He believed it, Sergeant Lemus said, because “they both have Ranger school backgrounds and they are pretty close friends,? and he added, “They would always talk about the French Foreign Legion and renegade mercenaries running around from country to country.?

    Three days later, Private Clagett “told me he couldn’t stop thinking about it,? Sergeant Lemus recalled. The private asked how Sergeant Lemus had responded to seeing dead bodies and shooting the enemy during his time in Iraq.

    “I told him it was all right that he felt like that,? Sergeant Lemus said. “He was really stressed because when he slept the few hours he did, he dreamed about it over and over.?

    Two initial investigations of the killings by commanders found no wrongdoing. It is not clear who eventually came forward to tell commanders that there was another version of what happened on May 9.
    At one point, Sergeant Lemus said in his statement, Sergeant Girouard gathered the men who had been present before the killing and told them “to be loyal and not to go bragging or spreading rumors? about what had happened. Sergeant Girouard added that “if he found out who told anything about it he would find that person after he got out of jail and kill him or her.?

    Sergeant Lemus said he laughed off the threat at the time. But there may have been other threats. In addition to murder, the four accused soldiers are charged with threatening to kill Pfc. Bradley L. Mason, one of the men in the squad, if he told what he knew about the shootings.

    Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

  21. Down with Americans? No, I don’t think anyone wants that. Down with racist USA? No, who said the USA is racist? It is one of the best countries in the world.

    But just like any country in the world there are good and there are bad, and unfortunately you are a poor representative of the beautiful things the US has to offer.

    I said YOU are racist. Do you believe yourself to speak in the name of 300 million Americans?

    So why do you mention Americans when you speak your racist mind? Are you such a coward that you need to hide behind the entire population?

    Do you forbid 300 million Americans their opinions by equating your views with ALL of them?

    Very cheap. And an insult to America. But racists like you can ONLY be an insult to all of humanity.

    Trust me, there are many Americans who put you and your likes to shame. Fine, fine American people who have compassion and understanding in their hearts.

    There are even US soldiers I have spoken with who have proven to be true humanitarians.

    Shame on you.

    Furthermore, for every video you post, I can post thousands to shame you. So stop while you have some dignity left to squander.

  22. ISRAEL MASSACRES 55 MOSTLY WOMEN AND CHILDREN IN QENA!!! LATEST NEWS.

  23. At least 20 children are among more than 40 civilians killed after an Israeli raid destroyed a three-storey building in the southern Lebanese town of Qana, Aljazeera’s correspondent reports.
    link is here

    Lebanese media reported that dozens of people remain trapped inside the building which was sheltering several families, some of whom had fled the Israeli bombardment of the Lebanese coastal town of Tyre

  24. “A day earlier, warplanes struck outside the market town of Nabatiyeh, crushing a house and killing a woman, her five children, and a man in a nearby house, Lebanese security officials said. In the southern port city of Tyre, volunteers buried 31 victims of the bombardment in a mass grave, among them a 1-day-old girl.” (AP)

    Israel can’t fight armies or militia. Only women and children.

  25. Charles

    I can post thousands to shame you.

    That would be interesting to see.

    On the one hand, you have muslims in free countries chanting death and mayhem to people and countries they don’t like. You have respected clergy and government officials on state/arab satellite TV doing basically the same thing. They are not hiding it - they come right out and say ‘we want to kill you!’.

    And they don’t just say it. Cartoons can send frenzied mobs into the streets across the entire world where looting and burning becomes the norm.

    But do people in the west express themselves in a similar way? TAI says he has thousands of videos.

    The ultimate evil demon Bush and his faithful sidekick Blair - do they spout such rhetoric? Or do we have mass demonstrations chanting for the destruction of muslims?

    Maybe we do but I just haven’t noticed?

    We do have our own radical groups to be sure. Skinheads hate basically everyone. They probably do chanting and maybe even dancing.

    But can someone of sober mind really compare muslim mobs and official rhetoric with ‘western’ mobs and official rhetoric?

    I think not.

    Waiting for western mass protest videos so we can see the bloodthirsty Americans screaming for the destruction of muslims…

    TAI?

  26. Michael

    Or do we have mass demonstrations chanting for the destruction of muslims?

    Of course not Char lie, you are too busy actually doing it.

  27. Hahahaha … Charles, your desperation is showing again.

    Who the hell said “we want to kill you”? And who is “you”?

    Show me.

    People who chant death to Israel do so because of Israel’s aggression in the Middle East.

    People who chant death to America do so because the US is supporting in every way Israel’s aggression against other states.

    But that is in places like Pakistan, Iraq (no surprise there, huh?), Yemen.

    And these protests are all allowed by the governments allied with the US to vent steam in the Middle East and Asia. All of these people, every last one of them, would jump at the chance to move to the US because there is no freedom of anything in their countries. The US has seen to that.

    It is US foreign policy that is the culprit but you do not want to be told you are wrong on anything.

    Rice has shamed the US in the past three weeks. You should read the op-eds of European newspapers just for a start. Oh yeah, that;s “old Europe”, right?

    But yes, there is a daily calling for the killing, maiming and destruction of all who stand up and say no. Not only Muslims and Arabs.

    It is just like Ann Coulter calling for the Nuking of Mecca or other notable media personalities saying for every Israeli killed 1000 Palestinians should be slaughtered (Hey remember Joe Farrah).

    Or how about the incitement of Frank Graham? Pat Robertson who has called for the invasion of Venezuela and assassination of Chavez in addition to calling Islam an evil religion?

    What do you do with evil especially after Bushco referred to evil over and over and over again?

    You stomp it out. So what is Robertson - a man of Christ (what a laff!!!!!!!!!!!!!) - suggesting happen to Islam? Stomped out of course.

    I have yet to see one person come out on state/arab satellite tv and say I want to kill you.

    That would be recorded rantings of the Zawahiri/Zarqawi/bin Laden freaks.

    But I have heard dozens say the Israelis should be fought for invading and destroying Lebanon, the US military for invading Iraq, the Israeli army in Palestine. Interesting common denominator. All three areas are occupied.

    And yes, there are no mobs in western countries because your editorialists, columnists, radio talk show hosts, tv personalities, motion pictures do it for you.

    You don’t need mobs, it is in what you teach people every day in textbooks, newspapers, radio shows, even on Oprah. Breeding racism, Xenophobia, and Islamophobia. Come on, Charles, are you serious with your crap?

    Tsk, tsk. They couldn’t find anyone better than Charles to argue their rightwing neocon drivel?

  28. Bob, can’t hack the truth, huh?

    Sure, have seen your likes before. Petty.

    Except for one thing. I am from the region. Where you from?

    I speak the language (along with a few others). What do you do? Go around calling people names?

    Very, very, very genuine.

    In the gallery of the weak-minded, you get quite a few nods.

  29. Charles

    TAI,

    I am quite sure that I have seen mobs of spittle dripping radical muslims burning and breaking things over the last several decades. They blow things up and slit throats. They readily admit it and it is quite well documented. Trying to deny it makes you look silly.

    I have NOT seen mobs of Christians, Buddhists, etc. involved in similar behavior. We could even take religion out of it (since it has become just so passe in the west). I haven’t seen the local garden club or rotarian meeting end in effigy burning.

    Of course, when denial fails, you always have a solid trenchline of ‘excuses’ to retreat to. You are quite studied up on that. Rather than consider the true sources of the problem, you choose to blame others.

    In the middle east, the culprit is easy. Its either the zionist illuminati of Israel who control the US, or the evil US who controls Israel, etc. I’m not sure what the chanting mobs in Europe are all upset about, but its probably some combination of that nasty Israel/US formula. There couldn’t possibly be any other reason.

    Of course, these ‘form’ excuses lose their context if you move a bit further afield. When a buddhist school teacher gets gunned down by a muslim radical in Thailand, it does get harder to blame the US (not that you wouldn’t try of course - LB will muster up a CIA plot if necessary). When muslim radicals kidnap and behead school girls in Indonesia, you wonder if the thugs did it to support glorious palestine. India? What is going on here? Is it really the US and Israel behind all the world’s trouble spots? Or is there something else?

    What is the common denominator?

    I just can’t figure it out. Let’s blame Israel!

    Here is my advice:

    Sit down and STFU. I mean, do whatever you want - just don’t don’t cause trouble. Don’t hurt anyone. Don’t oppress anyone. Take care of that and you won’t have troubles. Believe me - that will keep you busy for a long time.

    The more trouble you make - the more things you break - will just increase the likelihood of starting war. When wars start lots of things get broken and lots of people get hurt. If you directly attack us, you will definitely get a war. I don’t know who will win. You can pick a side and cheer all you want. Yipee.

    But if you make violent threats, and provoke a violent conflict, don’t start whining that its someone else’s fault when children die.

    Most sane people will take threats seriously - especially if the group making the threats has a history of delivering.

  30. Sit down and STFU, says Charles.

    Charles are you too cowardly to spell out Shut The Fuck Up? I don’t get it. Are you afraid LB won’t understand what you mean by STFU?

    Do you think abbreviating it makes you look less of a cowardly racist war-mongering Islamophobe?

    You have really, really lost it. I never imagined that I would arrive at the moment where I find you lost all control of your senses and just stand there ranting to yourself.

    My God, man, if no one else pities you can you not pity yourself?

    Again, Charles, again - this is what I said:

    You don’t need mobs, it is in what you teach people every day in textbooks, newspapers, radio shows, even on Oprah. Breeding racism, Xenophobia, and Islamophobia. Come on, Charles, are you serious with your crap?

    Mobs in the countries I mentioned protest because 1) their opinions and anger are disregarded by their governments (save for Syria and Iran where demos are official); and 2) their opinions and anger run counter to the official government line.

    Now, in your case, hatred, warmongering, Xenophobia and Islamophobia is not only the official line but that of the media as wellwhich, unfortunately, is terribly regulated now in the “free world”.

    You don’t get the common denominator? Why occupation, Charles.

    Occupation. You know? As in the occupation of Iraq. The occupation of Palestinian territories? The occupation of Lebanon?

    Listen, since I know you likely care more for your dog than you do for other human beings of different skin color and culture, go tie your dog to a tree with a leather belt. Keep him tied for oh, I dunno, let’s say six years.

    Tell me what you get, k?

    Let us dissect your poor, poor attempt.

    You wrote:

    When a buddhist school teacher gets gunned down by a muslim radical in Thailand, it does get harder to blame the US (not that you wouldn’t try of course - LB will muster up a CIA plot if necessary). When muslim radicals kidnap and behead school girls in Indonesia, you wonder if the thugs did it to support glorious palestine. India? What is going on here? Is it really the US and Israel behind all the world’s trouble spots? Or is there something else?

    When Tim McVeigh killed so many innocent people in Oklahoma, did the world go after every Christian American of Scottish ancestry?

    When Baruch Goldstein mowed down 28 worshippers during dawn prayers in Hebron was that an act of mercy? When Jewish settlers erected a monument in his honor, calling him an hero, why did you not protest then, Charles? Hmmm?

    Tsk, tsk, yet again playing the hypocrite. Charles, Charles. Are you really the best your people got?

    But if you make violent threats, and provoke a violent conflict, don’t start whining that its someone else’s fault when children die.

    That is true of all people on this planet, right, Charles?

    Heh, from the mouths of babes.

    Keep your advice to yourself, Charles. Fix your home before you come and blabber yourself into insignificance at ours.

  31. Hey Charles, look at what your hero Steven Green says.

    “I CAME OVER HERE BECAUSE I WANTED TO KILL PEOPLE” link is here

    Writing in Sunday’s editions of The Washington Post, Andrew Tilghman, a former correspondent for the US military newspaper Stars and Stripes, said he interviewed [Steven Green, a former US soldier accused of raping and murdering an Iraqi girl] several times in February at his unit south of Baghdad.

    “I came over here because I wanted to kill people,” he quoted Green as saying. “The truth is, it wasn’t all I thought it was cracked up to be.

    “I mean, I thought killing somebody would be this life-changing experience,” Green was quoted as saying. “And then I did it, and I was like, ‘All right, whatever.’

    “I shot a guy who wouldn’t stop when we were out at a traffic checkpoint and it was like nothing,” Green was quoted as saying. “Over here, killing people is like squashing an ant.

    “I mean, you kill somebody and it’s like, ‘All right, let’s go get some pizza.’”

    Like I said Charles, the official line, supported by the media and now the US military is Islamophobia and racism.

    Rape too.

    So why would you need mobs? This kind of stuff is blasted on your radio talk shows every single day.

    Heck, what was Hadji Girl? You know that song? Was it a Christmas Carol? A Hannukah Prayer?

  32. Charles

    Keep trying TAI.

    Pick out examples of criminals like McVeigh or Green and convince yourself that is the same thing.

    Why do you keep writing that Green is my friend or my hero? If he is guilty as charged, he should receive the severest punishment for his crimes. I’ve stated that several times so why do you keep repeating that he is my ‘hero’?

    Mobs in the countries I mentioned…

    What about the one’s you conveniently failed to mention? What about the mobs who live in liberal western countries?

    Why occupation, Charles.

    You know perfectly well that the violence in Iraq is due to insurgents and terrorists. Saddam is gone. The future is open. Iraqis are deciding each morning what they want to do. For many of them, their plans obviously have little to do with building a prosperous and democratic country. That is the problem - not the fact that US troops are stationed in country supporting the elected government.

    Regarding Hezbollah, they have made it clear over several decades of official policy and rhetoric that their goal is the destruction of Israel. This general policy is widely espoused. Do you think Israel should not take them seriously? They attacked Israel, and Israel is trying to eliminate them. What a god damned surprise.

    Anyway, Hezbollah ‘occupies’ southern Lebanon and refused to cede normal sovereign control to the elected government. I guess the problem isn’t the fact that arabs are ‘occupied’, its just they don’t like jews much. I suppose you could argue that any non-democratic country is being ‘occupied’ since the people have not authorized the regime. The rest is just fluff. But when in doubt, blame the jews. Believe me, its a sure thing in the ME.

    Hamas? Israel pulled out of Gaza and is still being hit from Gaza. Nothing like a step in the right direction - eh? As if the ‘palestinians’ just HAVE to fire that next volley of rockets. What the hell are they thinking?

    go tie your dog to a tree with a leather belt

    Exactly! You have deliberately tied the ‘Palestinians’ to a tree. They are stuck in their refugee camps for generations. How can this possibly be justified? Why are there refugee camps in arab countries? They have been there for longer now than the whole notion of ‘Palestine.’ You know perfectly well that the nation of Palestine was fabricated in a very calculating manner specifically to weaken and eventually displace the state of Israel. This has been confirmed by the people who created the hoax. And oh - what a hoax!

    Hadji Girl?

    Oh right - a soldier’s song about being ambushed is almost the same as the President of Iran, and a huge host of other clerics and politicians around the muslim world who regularly call for the destruction of Israel.

    Arab representatives reminded the UN, in 1947, that “Palestine was part of the province of Syria—the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity.”

    Eight years after the establishment of the State of Israel, in 1956, Ahmed Shukeiry, speaking for the so-called Palestinian government-in-exile, based in Gaza, told the UN General Assembly: “It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria.” Neither Ahmed Shukeiry nor anyone else suggested, during the 19 years, from 1948 to 1967, that Jordan occupied Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip (which was re-named “the West Bank”), that the 539,000 registered Arab refugees constituted a separate “Palestinian” entity, entitled to self-determination—let alone a separate state.

    “There is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. It is for political reasons only that we carefully emphasize our Palestinian identity, because it is in the national interest of the Arabs to encourage the existence of Palestinians against Zionism, the establishment of a Palestinian state is a new expedient to continue the fight against Zionism and for Arab unity.”

    My advice to STFU was meant figuratively TAI.

  33. Nah, Charles, you don’t mean anything figuratively. I know and everyone else here knows that if I had my back to you you would gladly deck me one from behind.

    And I meant it about you raping LB if you had the chance.

    See, that’s how racists, thugs, bullies, Xenophobes and Islamophobes generally are.

    Mobs in western countries? Where? I just saw news of a demonstration in the UK. No mobs there. Also one in Toronto. Can’t recall any mobs there. Just protesters carrying placards and pictures of what you did in Qana.

    Do you think all Palestinians live in refugee camps in the Arab World? Why in Iraq I had two Palestinian families live on my street alone.

    They had houses and cars and lived like the rest of us.

    But I digress. I came here to show you how Charles would raise his children.

    Here we go:

    link is here

    I suggest you all watch it. Had this been Palestinian children, they would have had an Israeli tank over run them.

    Charles, McVeigh and Green are you. You, Charles. The criminal, raping, pillaging mindset.

    Hold on. I am going to post what some of your heroes have been saying lately.

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