I translated the whole piece, spread the news
Start Reading:
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The magic has been turned on the magician. Hence, the talks now become clearer on the participation of these groups in killing Iraqis.
Accurate information, obtained by the “Quds Press” on the death squads that roamed the streets of Iraq, the greatest threat to the Iraqi social fabric.
Information provided by Sources from “Iraqi Intelligence” revealed what is going on, in the corridors of the Iraqi government.
Chalabi. The establishment of the first militia.
These militias, called “Free Iraq” has about 1000 member trained in the US and Hungary, and most of its members are officers and Iraqi soldiers from the former Iraqi army, captured during the Gulf war in 1991.
“Rafha camp” in Saudi Arabia, held for Iraqi families fled following the Gulf-war, was the start point for this group.
According to those sources, the militias “Free Iraq” formed by Chalabi and his cousin, lawyer Sami Chalabi, the first carried out looting of Iraqi museums, monuments, following the occupation of Baghdad, and those elements robbed the Iraq Central Bank, the center of the capital Baghdad, with the assistance of a special unit in the American army run by an officer of the Jewish origin.
The source accuses, Chalabi’s militia of stealing millions of dollars from the Iraqi Central Bank, and this militia was the first group to use physical liquidations of civilians and officers, teachers and doctors, in addition to the kidnapping of persons will be released in return for ransom.
The same source said that the militia “Free Iraq”, conducted high operations of stealing Iraqi oil, and smuggle it outside in different methods.
Militias run by clerics.
Many Militias formed following the American occupation of Iraq, However, the most serious were the militias of a religious clerics, formed by the strong and religious parties, on sectarian basis, some were in Iran and the other were in Syria, the militias operate under the cloak of sectarian slogans. It started their operations of liquidation and acts of violence.
According to the source, this militia is supervised by a team of senior officers of Iran intelligence, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, and the “Itila’at”, training them in camps inside Iranian and Iraqi territories.
The three leaders give the orders of arrest and kidnapping, torture and murder of Sunni Arabs and Baathists Shiites, from the headquarters of the former Iraqi Army.
[Baghdad Rusafa (Rashidieh camp and the road to Diyala, the College of the Air Defense, Al-Sha’ab and Hai Al-Basateen), the Army Aviation and prescriptive (Baghdad Al-jadidah, Al-Mashtal and the Husseinieh)]
The source said: evidence of the existence of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards who are behind the killings and abduction, of doctors, professors, academics and assaults on the officers from the former Iraqi army.
Persons involved.
The names of a number of officers, involved in the assassinations:
1– Brigadier Ali Mahmadawi, originally from the Missan governorate, which is currently manager of one of the detention centers and Iraqi Ministry of Interior, a former Iraqi army deserter, fled to Iran during the Iraqi-Iranian war, one of the leaders of ” Badr Brigade.”, his responsibility is the Amiriyah shelter in Baghdad-Karkh, assisted by Brigadier General Abbas al-Director of Investigations in the same shelter.
2–
3–
4–
5–
6–
7– Sheikh Jalal Al-Din Al-Sagir, preacher “Bratha” in Baghdad-Karkh, a leading figure in the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution, Sheikh and leads small group of armed Badr Corps, in coordination with the forces of the Interior Ministary, in carrying out killings, arrests and torture.
The source asserts that the “death squads” are not limited only to those militias formed by Ahmed Chalabi or some of the leaders of the Shiite parties, but there are groups run by the “Mossad”, in relation with Mithal Al-Alosi, who visited Israel.
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Excellent job, LadyBird. Thanks for this.
Hi KB
Thank you
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So, KB, where’ve you been hiding out these days? I see you’re still on the conspiracy hunt.
Iraq loses its voice of reason
By Sami Moubayed
The saddest news coming from Iraq is the decision of the Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani to cease all political activity and restrict himself to his religious duties in Shi’ite Islam. He said this weekend: “I will not be a political leader anymore. I am only happy to receive questions about religious matters.”
If Sistani lives up to his word, this means silencing the loudest — and only — remaining voice of reason and moderation in Iraqi politics. This is the same man who used his paramount influence to silence the guns of two Shi’ite insurgencies in 2004. He then wisely ordered his supporters to vote in last years national elections, claiming that it was a “religious duty” to join the political process and jump-start democratic life in Iraq.
This same wise man, who is a democrat at heart, insisted that women, too, must have their say in politics and that they should vote in elections. If their husbands, brothers or fathers forbade them from voting, then it was their right (as authorized by Sistani) to say no and to head to the ballots without approval (something frowned on among conservative Muslims).
Never supportive of the US occupation of Iraq, he nevertheless decided to cooperate honorably with the Americans (in anticipation of their eventual withdrawal), knowing that violence would not defeat them or make them go away.
Honorable cooperation, to a Ghandian leader like Sistani, was certainly more rewarding — and less costly — than a military insurgency. His political endorsement was all that was needed for any politician to win the parliamentary elections of 2005 and 2006, and he is considered the guiding force behind the broad coalition of religious Shi’ites known as the United Iraqi Alliance (UIA) that has been in power for the past two years.
Recently, however, Sistani has been both angry and disappointed at the UIA for failing to bring law, order and security to Iraq. He is appalled by the rising power of Shi’ite militias in the streets of Baghdad.
In July alone, more than 3,000 Iraqis were killed by rival militias from the Sunni and Shi’ite communities. A report released by the Pentagon on Friday showed that the real problem in Iraq is no longer an armed al-Qaeda– and Ba’athist-led insurgency fighting the Americans and the Iraqi government. It is now Iraqi Sunnis fighting against Iraqi Shi’ites — meaning, Iraq is now in civil war.
The Pentagon report noted that the attacks had risen to 792 per week and casualties were almost 150 Iraqis killed per day. Such startling facts are troubling for someone like Sistani, who hates violence and has repeatedly called for it to stop.
But his calls are falling on deaf ears. The biggest example was when fighting broke out on August 28 between Iraqi soldiers and the supporters of Shi’ite leader Muqtada al-Sadr in Diwaniyya, 160 kilometers south of Baghdad. Sistani called for calm. Nobody listened to him, and as a result 73 people were killed.
The other reason Sistani has decided to retreat from political life is that he is being greatly overshadowed by the younger, more populist Muqtada, who is 42 years his junior. Hailing from a strong dynastic family that once worked in opposition to Saddam Hussein, Muqtada rose to fame after the US invasion of 2003 as a loud anti-American leader.
He created a militia of his own, the Mehdi Army, and waged war on the Americans and the pro-US cabinet of prime minister Iyad Allawi in 2004. Under Sistani’s mediation, the conflict came to an end and Muqtada was allowed to live in peace, while a warrant for his arrest was dropped.
Muqtada has since entered the political process with astounding success and holds 30 seats in parliament, as well as four portfolios held by his supporters in the cabinet of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki.
Muqtada meets his supporters every day and distributes favors to all those around him. He operates a strong charity network, cares for the families of those who are wounded or killed in combat, and has build a name for himself as an uncorrupted leader who lives a monastic life.
He uses — with great skill — the “patron-client” system of Arab politics, offering the masses his protection in exchange for their allegiance. As a man of religion who should appeal to all Shi’ites, and not only his supporters, Sistani cannot do that.
When Iraqis come to Sistani telling them that a Sunni militant murdered one of their family, the grand cleric tells them to go to the police. Muqtada, however, promises revenge. He then sends out his own militiamen to avenge the killing, further endearing him to the masses.
Sistani is well connected to the older generation of upper-middle-class Iraqis in the Shi’ite community. He also has friends and followers among the rich urban elite. He is well connected to Iran.
Muqtada, however, is popular in the slums of Baghdad and among the unemployed youth who see salvation in Muqtada and the Mehdi Army. The reason is simple: when lawlessness prevails, the masses search for people who can protect them.
In a country like Iraq, Sistani means guidance, while Muqtada means protection. Life to the Iraqis is more important than wisdom.
The Independent quoted one of his aids when asked whether Sistani could prevent civil war in Iraq: “Honestly, I think not. He is very angry, very disappointed.” He was further quoted saying: “He [Sistani] asked the politicians to ask the Americans to make a timetable for leaving [Iraq] but they disappointed him.” He added: “After the war, the politicians were visiting him every month. If they wanted to do something, they visited him. But no one has visited him for two or three months. He is very angry that this is happening now. He sees this as very bad.”
Saddam dreaded Sistani because the cleric had backed a Shi’ite rebellion against him in 1991. Inasmuch as he would have loved to assassinate Sistani, Saddam could not do that because this would have created certain civil war in Ba’athist Iraq. This was something Saddam could not afford, coming out of eight years of the Iran-Iraq War and the fiasco of invading Kuwait and then being defeated by the Americans in 1991.
Nor could Saddam make Sistani disappear in the way Libyan leader Muammar al-Gaddafi did to Imam Musa al-Sadr, another Shi’ite cleric, in 1978. Instead, Saddam put Sistani under house arrest, shut down his mosque and forbade him from preaching.
The Shi’ite leader remained in seclusion until Saddam was toppled in March 2003. He has since reinforced his authority over Shi’ites throughout the region, sending emissaries to Iran to meet with the clergy, and relying on state-of-the-art technology to market his leadership through the Internet.
This is mainly done through a multi-language website called Sistani.org, which attracts more than 3 million people from Iran alone every month. Sistani receives hundreds of visitors at his home in Najaf every day, but does not go out, rarely gives interviews and rarely poses for the cameras. His office is Internet-wired and his aides are often on Google, surfing the ‘Net to brief him on the latest updates taking place around the world.
Still, however, the difference between Muqtada and Sistani is great. Although Sistani’s “honorable cooperation” is no longer popular among grassroot Shi’ites, he is still looked up to as an ultimate authority on religious affairs, even by Muqtada.
Muqtada does not match him in religious legitimacy, although some of his supporters have recently started to call him “Sayyed Muqtada” to give him an honorary religious title. He remains, however, a nobody in religious affairs, while Sistani is the supreme master, not only in Iraq but throughout the Muslim World.
Sistani is one of the brains of Shi’ite Islam, matched only by the Iranian Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and Ali Akbar Mohtashemi, the other grand ayatollah of Iranian politics who had been the chosen successor to the Islamic Republic’s founder Ruhollah Khomeini.
Sistani, who is an Iranian living in Iraq, was seen by Iraqis as a foreigner because he speaks Arabic with a Persian accent, and does not even hold an Iraqi passport. When people say, however, that Sistani is a follower of Iran, this is not very correct. The truth is that Iran follows Sistani, because of his paramount standing as a religious authority on Shi’ite Islam.
Sistani and Muqtada stand on different ground when it comes to Iran and the status of the Shi’ite community in Iraq.
Muqtada is greatly opposed to creating an autonomous Shi’ite district in southern Iraq, something that has been lobbied for by Abd al-Aziz al-Hakim of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq. Hakim is a creation of Iran and an ally of Sistani. His family is also the historical contender to Shi’ite leadership in Iraq against the family of Muqtada.
The young Muqtada believes in a united and Arabist Iraq. He pays little more than lip service to the mullahs of Tehran, arguing that they should not interfere in domestic politics. Both men have an ultimate goal of creating an Iran-style theocracy in Iraq. Sistani wants it influenced and controlled by Iran, while Muqtada wants it to be independent from Tehran. This brings the two men further apart when added to how they view the US occupation of Iraq. While both may be equally opposed to it, each deals with this occupation in a very different manner.
Historically, one must remember that it was Sistani who saved Muqtada from the hangman’s noose in 2004. Muqtada went to war in April 2004 and Sistani ordered a ceasefire that went into effect in May. That August, however, Sistani went to London for surgery and before reaching Heathrow Airport, fighting had resumed between the Americans and the Sadrists.
Some speculated that Sistani’s journey to London at such a time was deliberate: a green light to the Americans to launch a full assault on Muqtada. If the Americans won, then Sistani would have rid himself of a noisy challenger in Shi’ite politics. If they lost (which was impossible) then he would get rid of the Americans.
What happened was a different story. During Sistani’s absence, more fighting broke out. On his return, when Muqtada and his men were stranded in combat, Sistani stepped in at the last moment to end the crisis. He secured another ceasefire, a pardon for Muqtada, and his continuation in the political life of Iraq.
Sistani was sending Muqtada a message: “I saved you in a minute, and if I wish, I can also destroy you in a minute. Do not get too strong or overambitious. I am No 1 in the Shi’ite community of Iraq.”
This message reached Muqtada loud and clear in 2004. Fate — and US mishandling of Iraq — which leaves no room for “honorable cooperation” anymore, played directly into the hands of Muqtada, making him “No 1″ in the Shi’ite community of Iraq.
Postscript: This author submitted a question by e-mail to Sistani.org, asking the ayatollah whether, if history repeats itself, he would step in to save Muqtada again, the way he did in 2004. In other words, did he regret his “wisdom” in 2004? To date, there has been no answer.
This is not a good article on the Death Squads. It is full of nonsense. The Conspiracy theory which is not completely unjustified is used here so much that it hits back at the article’s credibility.
Concerning the source of the information, this is a necessary tip for everybody:
We Iraqis are very suspicious of people using the word ‘Quds’, as for example in the London-based Arab newspaper ‘Al-Quds Al-Arabi’.
The above is what I call nonsense, although I agree with you on the ‘Al-Quds Al-Arabi’.
The article is very close to exactly what happening.
Saad, could you be more specific? Why does ‘Quds’ raise suspicion? Which part of the article is false?
“The article is very close to exactly what happening.”
Very close to exactly, huh? Like you’d know. You’re Dutch.
Jon, so what? We’re American and not of Iraqi ancestry, so why would we know more about it?
I still haven’t seen any specific critiques. Did Chalabi form a militia trained by the U.S. or not? I know he was on our payroll (big time)for a while. I see lots of links on Google for ‘Chalabi +looting’, although they seem to originate mostly on lefty blogs. Still, he’s not exactly a sterling character, is he?
My point was that she has no special knowledge of the situation and she wouldn’t know any better than you do. She’s not an Iraqi nor a member of any intelligence service or other organization. She is completely uninvolved in the current crises and all her information comes from communist propaganda sites that simply enforce her delusions. She’s nothing more than a blogger with a chip on her shoulder.
Ladybird is desperately trying to intimate that US has trained and funded people to become “death squads”. This is horseshit. Have “death squads” arisen from groups that were trained or funded by the US? Probably, but that is not due to any US policy, but rather a lack of morality on the part of those perpetrating these crimes.
Imagine I sell you a car. You go out drinking and then run some people over. Am I responsible for your crime? No. You are.
That people might have operated as members of “death squads” after receiving US military training or funding does not make the US culpable in these situations. The responsiblity lies wholly with the criminials committing the acts themselves.
The Iraqi “Death Squads” Myth
By Lt. Col. Gordon Cucullu
January 12, 2005
This is utter nonsense.
Let’s look at history first. Just what was going on in the early 1980s? The Soviet Union was strong and expanding. Under President Jimmy Carter, the Russians invaded Afghanistan. Carter punished them by canceling the 1980 Olympic Games, the one peaceful event that united all nations every four years. Carter then adroitly destabilized two areas in the world – Iran and Nicaragua – and almost toppled another friend, South Korea. The benefits of his policy in the Persian Gulf began with the hostage crisis and persist with the growing Islamist movement threatening us today. In Central America, the communist Sandinistas, led by the Ortega brothers, stepped into the void created by the toppling of the Somoza regime. They immediately launched and accelerated support for Cuban-inspired communist insurgencies in El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, and Costa Rica. The Soviets installed a dictator puppet in Grenada and began to construct airfields to accept high performance military aircraft. The Ortegas discussed acquisition of MiG fighter aircraft. El Salvador was run by an increasingly harsh military dictatorship. Multiple, compounded, failed foreign policy initiatives helped the nation dump Carter in 1980.
including a large dose of training that focused on human rights, dealing with civilians, and prisoner handling. Despite contrary accusations by a hostile media, the quality of the training was designed to improve Salvadoran Army relations with its populace and win them over from the guerrillas. The strategy eventually proved remarkably successful, but at first the concept was tough to sell.
In El Salvador, a popular culture of violence compounded the severe problems that would be associated with any insurgency. Salvadoran soldiers and guerrillas alike thought that the best fate for an enemy was death, and if any innocents got in the way: tough. As a result, the peasant population was terrorized by both sides. One of the institutions that drew the most criticism – justified in my opinion – were the death squads sent out by the Salvadoran Army. These notorious ad hoc units dressed in civilian clothes and kidnapped, killed, and assassinated all those whom they even suspected of supporting the guerrillas. On the other side, the FMLN guerrillas also killed and kidnapped with impunity.
Poor Salvadoran peasants were caught in the crossfire. American outrage with the death squads grew to the point that Vice President George H.W. Bush flew secretly to San Salvador to meet with General Flores-Lima and others in the junta. Behind closed doors, America will not support the death squads, period. Bush was hard and inflexible, and the Salvadorans agreed to his terms. The death squads were out of business permanently.
Further convincing the leaders that positive inducements (and not fear) were best for the country, the Salvadoran government benefited from a surprising upsurge of popular support when the peasants realized that the military was now on their side. Conversely, the level of violence from the guerrillas spiked as the communists, desperately aware that they were losing control, tried to intimidate the people. Within months political parties formed, candidates campaigned, and genuinely free elections were held under the stern gaze of international electoral monitors, who pronounced the elections fair. Voter turnout was amazing. Key to this success was the fact that the army – now increasingly well trained and staunchly on the side of the people — announced that it would not influence the election but would devote all assets toward safeguarding the electoral process.
Salvadoran Army units surrounded polling places, guns pointed outward, protecting the peasants as they lined up to vote. Vowing to disrupt the election, guerrillas attacked indiscriminately with small arms fire, machine guns, and mortars. Innocent civilians – men, women, and children – lay in the baking sun, face down in the dirt while guerrillas tried to intimidate and frighten them away from the polling places. Army protection was effective, and the communist attacks failed miserably. The motivation of these people – poor, uneducated, and unsophisticated in the mechanisms of democracy but acutely aware of their golden chance for freedom – could not be suppressed by mere gunfire. It was an honest, unassuming display of bravery that awed combat veterans.
Democracy won the day in El Salvador, not Noam Chomsky’s urban legend of Special Forces-led death squads. In El Salvador, we saw a model that works worldwide: Give ordinary people a chance to be free, to choose representative leaders, and to control their own destiny, and they will gladly step up to the challenge, regardless of personal danger or discomfort. It worked in South Korea, El Salvador, and much of Central America. It worked in Grenada and Panama, in the liberated states of Eastern Europe, in Afghanistan, and most recently in Ukraine. And the model will work in short time in Iraq. Democracy is the real Salvadoran Option. It is a gift that we must steadfastly promote, defend, and share with the world.
I appreciate the article, Jon, but a link would do nicely ;)
I’m not sure what others take from this, but I was never under the impression that the US purposefully trained death squads — although some of the more emotional among us go down that road.
But we did inadvertantly train police who then used that training in sectarian reprisals. We are guilty of being stupid. If we hadn’t been so ignorant about their culture, we might have screened our trainees a little better.
Your argument is a little like the NRA saying “guns don’t kill people, people do” while simultaneously fighting all forms of gun control and letting anybody get their hands on one.
“I appreciate the article, Jon, but a link would do nicely”
Links have been known to go bad over time.
“I was never under the impression that the US purposefully trained death squads”
You aren’t exactly the issue. It’s others that don’t know our culture that I am worried about falling for Ladybird’s line of bull.
“But we did inadvertantly train police who then used that training in sectarian reprisals.”
Nothing inadvertant about it. If you are referring to Iraqi police, it is necessary for us to help them develop the means to protect themselves.
Police training is not used in sectarian reprisals. You don’t need any police training to yank someone off the street into a van at gunpoint or to lop someone’s head off. Police training is the training that should help prevent human rights abuses, not vice versa.
“We are guilty of being stupid. If we hadn’t been so ignorant about their culture, we might have screened our trainees a little better.”
How do you recommend screening an indiginous force of revolutionists for their moral value systems? Training someone to respect human rights is the best you can do and that was done.
A gun is a tool and nothing more. You don’t need a gun to kill someone. Blaming the gun is as foolish as you can get.
Here… do something constructive and go read this.
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/johnfkennedyinaugural.htm
You’ve misunderstood me on several points:
I meant that we did not intend to train individuals who would then go and kill other Iraqi’s.. my point being that we did not see sectarian violence coming, and we should have.
No, just police uniforms, guns, and vehicles used by members of the Ministry of the Interior, under the government we helped establish. I know that was never our intention, but we nonetheless were part of the process that allowed it to happen. Most of the blame lies with the Iraqi’s who commit these crimes, but we can’t pretend we had nothing to do with it.
That’s not what I said. People kill people with guns. Just like the arms dealers who sell RPG’s to terrorists or anybody else who can pay (may they rot in hell).
Don’t be snide. Perhaps bush could follow some of JFK’s advice — like strengthening the UN, instead of Pax Americana.
Jon, when I try to look at the big picture, it seems that the US has a history of foreign adventures based on military strength and little understanding of the cultures we’re invading. Johnson did the same damn thing in Viet Nam, because he just couldn’t comprehend how farmers and fisherman could stand up to our military. If he’d understood the people, he’d have realized that they were prepared to fight to the last person.
Here we are, 40 years later, and we jumped right into the quicksand without looking where we were going, because we were too in love with our PNAC visions and military technology to bother to learn about the culture and history of the people we were about to invade. And we had plenty of warning.
George W’s dad said this when asked why he didn’t invade Baghdad in Gulf I:
“Whose life would be on my hands as the commander-in-chief because I, unilaterally, went beyond the international law, went beyond the stated mission, and said we’re going to show our macho? We’re going into Baghdad. We’re going to be an occupying power — America in an Arab land — with no allies at our side. It would have been disastrous.”
Are we going to learn anything here, or just pretend it’s all the Iraqi’s fault?
To LadyBird:
U say that the article is, I quote u: “The article is very close to exactly what happening.”
Here I draw your attention to the fact that u are speaking of media which should be striving to be credible. And this credibility comes from …the proof on the information & the respectability (meaning neutral & unbiaised) of the source of the information. So here is my question: Do u have proof on this article of yours or is it (to quote u not very exactly) very close to exactly what u HEAR SAY in Iraq nowadays?????????
Jarn — “You’ve misunderstood me on several points:”
Nah, I understood you. I was just pointing out that it was a badly composed sentence. ;-)
“I meant that we did not intend to train individuals who would then go and kill other Iraqi’s”
We trained people to defend their country. Period. End of sentence. Next sentence is that some of those same people might then have formed death squads. It had nothing to do with the training. They did that as individuals responsible for their own actions.
“my point being that we did not see sectarian violence coming, and we should have.”
We assume that these are civilized people who can live in peace and, for the greatest majority, that is the absolute truth. The terrorist activity in Iraq is being carried out by a small minority.
“No, just police uniforms, guns, and vehicles used by members of the Ministry of the Interior, under the government we helped establish.”
So, you believe that the car dealer should be held liable for the drunk driving done in his vehicle? That’s very Democrat of you.
“I know that was never our intention, but we nonetheless were part of the process that allowed it to happen.”
We may have quickened the process, but if you are right that these are uncivilized people who cannot live in peace with each other, then it was inevitable and Hussein was just a brutal bandaid.
“Most of the blame lies with the Iraqi’s who commit these crimes, but we can’t pretend we had nothing to do with it.”
I’m not pretending. We have no involvement in any “death squad” activity.
“That’s not what I said. People kill people with guns. Just like the arms dealers who sell RPG’s to terrorists or anybody else who can pay (may they rot in hell).”
You’re blaming the tool. Do you know that some people kill with hammers. Should we license and restrict the sale of hammers?
“Don’t be snide.”
I’m sure I don’t know what you mean by that.
“Perhaps bush could follow some of JFK’s advice — like strengthening the UN, instead of Pax Americana.”
You’re just as bad as Ladybird and company blaming the US for everything. You act like we control the development of that organization. There are well over a hundred nations represented and directing the UN. The strengthening that JFK wanted for the UN was cooperative action towards spreading liberty throughout the world. There are very few nations out there that want to cooperate in this manner. Most would rather look the other way and allow the abuse to continue. The only way you can get the UN to take real action anymore is by invoking the word “genocide”.
Just look at France. They signed on to a cease-fire deal between Israel and France, but then we had to bend their arms backwards to get them to send their portion of the necessary forces.
The UN is a joke now and not because of the US. Everyone is trying to use it as a political tool to see what they can get out of it and put as little as they can into it.
Pax Americana isn’t much of an option, but it’s better than people sitting on their asses hemming and hawing and just letting the problems of the world grow.
“Jon, when I try to look at the big picture, it seems that the US has a history of foreign adventures based on military strength and little understanding of the cultures we’re invading.”
Would you like us to just sit back and wave flowers at people and hope they’ll act right?
Bush was justified in ordering the invasion of Iraq. The only real mistake was the dismantling of the existing power structure. Consider it a learning experience. I’m sure we’ll do better in Iran.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3116259.stm
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/25/sprj.irq.centrifuge/
“Johnson did the same damn thing in Viet Nam, because he just couldn’t comprehend how farmers and fisherman could stand up to our military.”
Do you know that the Chinese lost almost as many soldiers in Vietnam as both North and South Vietnam put together? We were fighting well trained and equipped Chinese, not fishermen and farmers.
“If he’d understood the people, he’d have realized that they were prepared to fight to the last person.”
Blahblahblah. When Nixon took the fight to the North, we started to make progress, but sadly, our forces had their hands tied behind their backs by politicians who kowtowed to public opinion. The same thing is happening today.
“we jumped right into the quicksand without looking where we were going, because we were too in love with our PNAC visions and military technology to bother to learn about the culture and history of the people we were about to invade”
Dude, you’re being suckered by communist propaganda.
“George W’s dad said this when asked why he didn’t invade Baghdad in Gulf I”
If we’d have deposed Hussein then, we’d be done by now and Iraq would be a free and democratic nation today.
“Are we going to learn anything here, or just pretend it’s all the Iraqi’s fault?”
It’s the fault of a very small portion of Iraqi criminals and probably more so Iran’s fault for their destabilizing influence. Most Iraqis want freedom and were plenty happy when Saddam was sacked.
“very close to exactly what u HEAR SAY in Iraq nowadays?”
Saad — It isn’t even what she hears, it’s what she wants to hear.
Dear Saad
Chalabi have his own militia, we all know this.
Badr existed long time ago, we know that.
Where is your disagreement?
Damn, I’m good. :-D
Jon, you’ve said so much that I could take issue with, that this could easily turn into a time-wasting, boring extended debate. I ain’t got the time, so I’ll narrow it down:
No, but I think the car dealer should be smart enough not to sell a car to a known drunk, for the same reason that we make people take driving tests.
Are you deliberately spinning what I said? I’m not blaming the friggin’ tool, alright? I’m saying that you don’t break up a fight by handing out guns.
1. It’s clear that BushCo had no idea what he was getting into — agreed?
2. It’s also true that he ignored any advice that contradicted his beliefs, which might have spared us the mess we’re in — do you agree?
That’s the part that belongs to us — as Powell said, the “Pottery Barn” rule.
(Gotta go –family responsibilities — sorry for not keeping up the conversation [at least for tonight])
“you’ve said so much that I could take issue with”
Why does everyone keep saying that? 8-O
“the car dealer should be smart enough not to sell a car to a known drunk”
So, you would expect car dealers to begin policing people’s behavior? That’s very Democrat of you. ;-)
“Are you deliberately spinning what I said? I’m not blaming the friggin’ tool, alright?”
I’m innocent of everything! Hehe. ;-)
“I’m saying that you don’t break up a fight by handing out guns.”
Interesting. Do you break up a fight by allowing the weak to be ruthlessly beaten into submission?
“1. It’s clear that BushCo had no idea what he was getting into — agreed?”
Well, he didn’t know or didn’t think it would be an insurmountable problem. I’m sure that someone in his cabinet knew and explained the situation prior to the attack. In the times after 9/11, I don’t think that Iraqi turmoil was of paramount importance. I think Bush gave greater weight to the fact that Hussein was circumventing the inspection process and the fear of a possible WMD attack enabled by Hussein was the paramount concern.
“2. It’s also true that he ignored any advice that contradicted his beliefs, which might have spared us the mess we’re in — do you agree?”
I think Bush surrounded himself with like-minded individuals.
Careful. Pottery Barn is going to slap you with a defamation lawsuit!
You know it probably wasn’t difficult for Bush to find like-minded individuals after 9/11. 80% of the nation professed support of the invasion of Iraq. I think Bush did what he thought was right. I don’t think that Bush has lost support for the war because people now believe that Hussein was innocent of all charges. Most people know better than that. People have pulled their support because they are discouraged. The public is like a yoyo being yanked up and down by the media. When the media supported the invasion, the people supported the invasion. Now that the media for the most part has painted a dismal picture, the people no longer support the reconstruction efforts in Iraq.
I think that Bush is just a symptom of a larger problem. The main problem is that people are no longer interested in liberty and good government and all the things that made this country great. They elected someone who represented their bias and they got what they deserved.
“(Gotta go –family responsibilities — sorry for not keeping up the conversation [at least for tonight])”
No need to appologize. Plenty of bloggers out there for me to torture. ;-)
To LB,
U will have to learn yourself to distinguish btw established facts & rumours. Just one example among many others:
U say that the first Death Squad was Chalabi’s. Ok! Everybody in Iraq knows that Chalabi is an adventurer & a crook. But where is your proof that he has any linkage to the DS?
If he really was involved in the DS, then would u think that the Americans would have publicly kicked his ass the spectacular way they did in May 2004 when they sent the police to his house? Think again!
Also u should look at the source. Why would Al-Quds Al-Arabi be an unreliable media as a source in the eyes of Iraqis? Who runs it, & for which agendas? & so why would Al-Quds Press be any different? Who runs the latter?
U know very well that Saddam used the word Quds so much in his adventures that Iraqis grew not only weary of he word, but also extremely sensitive & deeply SUSPICIOUS.
R u Iraqi? Then u don’t need these explanations.
Washington Post ….April 7, 2003
U.S. Airlifts Iraqi Exile Force For Duties Near Nasiriyah
Pentagon Preparing to Train Iraqi Dissidents…September 25, 2002
The Hungarian camp being used to train Iraqi exiles for the Free Iraqi Forces
.… April, 2003
Deploying the “Free Iraqi Forces”…Apr. 7, 2003
——————————–
Well, they couldn’t kick Muqtada’s ass, or Hakim’s ass, add to this, what do you think the CIA trained the FIF to do…..? Planting flowers?
or they trained 800‑1000 to librate Iraq…single handed?
———————————
If any westerner read this, he will think there is something suspicious about the word Quds.
Allow me to make things very clear [for the westerners], Quds is an Arabic word for Jerusalem and it’s called Quds in all Arab countries from Morocco to Iraq.
In Arabic language we don’t have any other alternative or equivalent to this name.
Any way,
So, you just have to use your common sense and distinguish the information from misinformation.
P.S.
You can read the “who are we” on their website.
No, I am from India.
Ladybird
A communist from India who lives in Holland and blogs about Iraq.
LOL! you waki-Iraqi
Yeah I read your links. I still don’t see the linkage to the DS u r talking about?
Aaaoooooh Yeeeees! Now i understand. So u saw the words ‘Soldiers’+‘Chalabi’+‘Hunting down’. U put these together & the ‘Death Squads’ appeared to u?!!
No, sorry i don’t follow your logic.
I step away for the day and Ladybird attempts to perpetrate a fraud. All you’ve proven so far, Ladybird, is that you don’t know what a “death squad” is.
P.S
It’s not my job to provide evidence, my job is to ignite the first spark and start the first small flame, the big fire will follow by itself.
Ladybird
well thanks for small miracles Ladybird you’ve just verified your role here at roadstore blog,
Rumor and Scuttlebutt control.
Congrats Ladybird in your time here you’ve started some world class whoppers!!
If you want to prove a positive, then you have to provide evidence. So far, all you’ve proven is that Chalabi ran a military unit and that you don’t know what a “death squad” is.
What you’re doing is trying to mislead people in the true fashion of propagandists everywhere.
Shutup
hehe ;-)
LB says:
“It’s not my job to provide evidence, my job is to ignite the first spark and start the first small flame, the big fire will follow by itself.”
Aw shucks! So now u choose to “ignite” the hissing of the white flag sky high having failed to convince us?
Still i can only congratulate u for having succeeded in igniting a long rich column (see all the way above) only to let a BONFIRE of commentaries follow by itself!!!
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The biggest death squad in Iraq is actually called the US Army, but I suspect that most if not all are financed by the US.
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m26428&hd=0&size=1&l=e
Chalabi. The establishment of the first militia.
First “Death Squad” formed by “Ahmed Chalabi”, the founder of “Iraqi National Congress”, one of the most important group in the Iraqi opposition before the occupation.
These militias, called “Free Iraq” has about 1000 member trained in the US and Hungary, and most of its members are officers and Iraqi soldiers from the former Iraqi army, captured during the Gulf war in 1991.
“Rafha camp” in Saudi Arabia, held for Iraqi families fled following the Gulf-war, was the start point for this group.
Members of the former Iraqi army, who had requested asylum, remember that the helicopters were landing regularly with a person who is unknown to them, who turned out to be later that he was Ahmed Chalabi, accompanied by CIA officers, with the promise of getting American and European asylum, people joined Chalabi’s “Iraqi National Congress”.
According to those sources, the militias “Free Iraq” formed by Chalabi and his cousin, lawyer Sami Chalabi, the first carried out looting of Iraqi museums, monuments, following the occupation of Baghdad.
And those elements robbed of the Iraq Central Bank, the center of the capital Baghdad, with the assistance of a special unit in the American army run by an officer of the Jewish origin.
The source accuses, Chalabi’s militia of stealing millions of dollars from the Iraqi Central Bank, and this militia was the first group to use physical liquidations of civilians and officers, teachers and doctors, in addition to the kidnapping of persons will be released in return for ransom.
The same source said that the militia “Free Iraq”, conducted high operations of stealing Iraqi oil, and smuggle it outside in different methods.
Militias run by clerics.
Many Militias formed following the American occupation of Iraq, However, the most serious were the militias of a religious clerics, formed by the strong and religious parties, on sectarian basis, some were in Iran and the other were in Syria, the militias operate under the cloak of sectarian slogans. It started their operations of liquidation and acts of violence.
The most dangerous of these militias is “the Badr Brigade” of the “Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution”, headed by “Abdel Aziz al-Hakim”, they are not a militia, they are an organized army with hierarchy ranks listed as any regular army.
They have various “hit unites” conducting unending operations; assassinations, bombings, kidnapping and special teams for arrests.
There are evidence confirms that these militias earn huge salaries financed by Iran, and “Sleeping Cells” ready to carry out any operation at any moment.
Among the leaders of this militia are “Hadi Farhan al-Amri”, Aka “Abu Hassan Al-Ameri” the leader of the military wing of the “Supreme Council”, as well as “Hassan Al-Sari” the leader of the “Iraqi Hizbollah”, his cousin “Majid Al-sari” the leader of “Tha’ar Allah”=“Revenge of God” [dismantled by British forces in Basra], former Interior Minister and recent Finance Minister “Baqir Solagh”, “Razaq Yasser Al-Mousawi” AkA “Seid Hamza Al-Mousawi” the leader of “15 Sha’aban” organization, “Ali Al-Adeeb” one of the “Badr Brigade” members, “Jassem Jabbar Ekdawi” leader of “Islamic Vanguard Party” in Dhi Qar.
According to the source, this militia is supervised by a team of senior officers of Iran intelligence, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, and the “Itila’at”, training them in camps inside Iranian and Iraqi territories.
Another “death squad”. under the name of “Al-Mahdi Army”, saying, the speaker of this organization in Baghdad, Abdel-Hadi al-Daraji, was an active member of the “Baath party” with another person named “Abbas Alsaidi”, deputy of Al-Sadr “Bahaa Al-Araji”, are the managers of this brutal “death squad”.
The three leaders give the orders of arrest and kidnapping, torture and murder of Sunni Arabs and Baathists Shiites, from the headquarters of the former Iraqi Army.
[Baghdad Rusafa (Rashidieh camp and the road to Diyala, the College of the Air Defense, Al-Sha’ab and Hai Al-Basateen), the Army Aviation and prescriptive (Baghdad Al-jadidah, Al-Mashtal and the Husseinieh)]
Mahdi Army uses members in the militia from Alcoholics and “drug addicts”, thieves, and the ex-prisoners, ex-detainees, as well as low-income people, illiterates to perform these operations.
The source said: evidence of the existence of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards who are behind the killings and abduction, of doctors, professors, academics and assaults on the officers from the former Iraqi army.
Persons involved.
The names of a number of officers, involved in the assassinations:
1– Brigadier Ali Mahmadawi, originally from the Missan governorate, which is currently manager of one of the detention centers and Iraqi Ministry of Interior, a former Iraqi army deserter, fled to Iran during the Iraqi-Iranian war, one of the leaders of ” Badr Brigade.”, his responsibility is the Amiriyah shelter in Baghdad-Karkh, assisted by Brigadier General Abbas al-Director of Investigations in the same shelter.
2– Police brigadier Ali Ghalib Deputy Minister of the Interior, a Turkmen-Shiite the leader of ” Badr Brigade” district of Tall Afar, who joined after the invasion of Iraq and was a member of the Division of the Baath party, he was dismissed from service by Ali Hassan al-Majid after official papers forgery .
3– Brigadier Mohamed Hassan, AkA “Abu Zulfiqar”, originally from Basra, and fled from military service in the 1980s when he was a first lieutenant military, and went to Iran, where he joined to the “Badr Brigade”, He is currently the director of operations for the Ministry of the Interior and conducting many operations of arrests, torture and killings in Baghdad in coordination with Iranian intelligence.
4– Bragadier Ahmed Kadhim Khafagi AkA “Abu Jaafar”, originally from Basra, , a soldier who had deserted during the former Iraqi government. went to Iran and got the nationality, he is currently director general of the Ministry of the Interior, one of the leaders of “the Badr Brigade”.
5– Bashir Nasser Alundi, AkA Abu Akram Alundi, or Abu Ahmed Al-Muhandis, in charge of the Interior Ministry, supervisor of detainee center in Jadiriyah, he leads the cruelest and most dangerous armed groups of the “Badr Brigade”, he uses the equipment, cars and uniforms from the Iraqi Interior Ministry.
6– Seid Nasr Al-Din Al-Kabanji, preacher in Najaf mosque, a leading figure in the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution, leading a group of armed “Badr Brigade”, and holds the rank of colonel in the Iranian intelligence.
7– Sheikh Jalal Al-Din Al-Sagir, preacher “Bratha” in Baghdad-Karkh, a leading figure in the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution, Sheikh and leads small group of armed Badr Corps, in coordination with the forces of the Interior Ministary, in carrying out killings, arrests and torture.
The source asserts that the “death squads” are not limited only to those militias formed by Ahmed Chalabi or some of the leaders of the Shiite parties, but there are groups run by the “Mossad”, in relation with Mithal Al-Alosi, who visited Israel.
The aim of these gangs is to raise sectarian sedition by targeting Shiites and Sunnis. It also goes to the extent that the task of other “Constitutional Monarchy Movement”, led by “Sharif Ali Bin Al-Hussein”, sponsored by British intelligence, in addition to small teams from some other Sufi movements.
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Thank you Nadia and Ladybird. I will pass this information around as much as I can. I wasn’t suprised by all these massacres happening in Iraq after the 9/11 fiasco.
These are the same things that are going on in Palestine and Lebanon.
Death squads/Mossad/CIA/Arab traitors — it’s all the same thing. And these grisly crimes based on greed for land, resources and oil have been going on for decades.
There’s a lot of Sharons’ and Chalabis’ out there. There’s a lot of AIPACs and ADLs, also.
Oh, and there’s way too many jons’ and saadis’.
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why would sadr aid , an alleged ex baathi be killing shia baathis?
militias and death squads are 2 different things, lets get this straight. Shia militias protect iraqis, But shia AND sunni death squads are used by the US to bump off problem iraqis of either sect.
1 iraq. No US, No Baathis arab chauvinists, No wahabi terror masters.